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TwistedFate
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Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 07:18 PM UTC
hmmm, I think I may split the difference. Keep the inside door Int Green, but paint the actual well black. Sort of like a quick 'flight line" paint job was done on it as I imagine these black wings were done in a hurry. Dunno, I still got some time to think about it.
Holdfast
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#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 07:27 PM UTC
:-) Er well actually the Black wing, White wing was originally a factory job, the black wing on QJoB was probably left after the decision that the White wing wasn't necessary. So the wheel well is (probably) factory painted. Thats why I believe it to be Int Green. Gets confusing, dun it :-)
Mal
TwistedFate
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Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 08:15 PM UTC
Yeah, that's what I'm seeing after doing a little more research on it. (of course, my research is showing those wheel wells to be Sky, not Interior Green) The problem I'm having is operational photos of Spits are black-n-white and the color images are refurb Spits. So I'll go with the expert and paint them Int Green.
Favorisio
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Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 08:35 PM UTC
Carl, Darcy, Welcome, glad you both decided to join in

Carl, I actually opened my box a few days ago, but I didn't put any pics up in case I got wrong . I even turned to the first page of instructions and read the first stage (naughty I know). However my arrangement on my bench was nowhere near as professional as yours, it was all over the place.

Mal, those protruding guns, cut them off when?, and why a round file? I may be missing something obvious here.

Also, what is the concensus about the pilot? Include or not? I haven't had a good close look at the detail on him, but it feels as though he may get in the way of showing off all that top class cockpit detail #:-)

I've got some Eduard pre painted PE seatbelts, actually not picked them up yet, so I haven't had a look at them. Probably get them Saturday.

Later Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 06:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mal, those protruding guns, cut them off when?, and why a round file? I may be missing something obvious here.



If you look at the wing from the top or bottom, you will see that the gun recesses are rounded into the wing. So after you snip the guns you would use a round file to file it all the way into the recess. On mine I didn't worry about getting it too perfect as many Spits on the ground have covers over the guns to keep dirt from getting in. I'll be doing that and I just want the guns out of the way, so they don't show when I put the covers on.

I removed the guns before I glued the wing halves together. Since I'm covering the gun ports I used them as a convenient place to touch the liquid cement. Here is specifically how I attached the 2 halves:
1) put a thin line of cement about 2mm from the edge of the trailing edge of the 1/2 wing pieces (B1, B7) and a very little bit along the outer edge of these pieces.
2) attach the wing halves and press the trailing edges together keeping the front aligned as well as possible.
3) touch my cement applicator to the 4 gun holes and the inside edge(where the wing will meet the fuselage) and let capillary action carry the cement down the wing joint. Hold with clips or tape until cement takes full affect.

I have a little sanding to do to smooth the seam, but not a whole lot. That's how I did it, Mal probably has his own way.


Quoted Text


Also, what is the concensus about the pilot? Include or not? I haven't had a good close look at the detail on him, but it feels as though he may get in the way of showing off all that top class cockpit detail #:-)



I'm leaving mine out. My model will depict a Spit on the ground waiting for something to do, so a pilot wouldn't be in it. (The real reason is I can't paint figures so I come with scenarios that don't need them #:-) )
Holdfast
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#056
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:21 AM UTC
:-) Roger,
I don't think there's room for the pilot, without a bit of GBH. I never put pilots in my models. Up to you though.
Tims got the answer for the guns, putting on patches. I bet you don't have anything to use ie red decal. You could utilise red bits from the unused decals. (Confession. I didn't check before babling on about files. Best way, if you aren't going to cover the gun ports, would be to glue wings together cut of protruding guns, then drill out the ports).
Tim
You have me slightly worried here, it sounds as if you are using tube cement!!!!
I never use tube cement, far to dangerous near plastic.
Roger
Never even considered that you might be using tube cement EEK, stop.
Confirm please
Mal
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:25 AM UTC
Tube cement!!! Never!! I use Testors liquid and Tenax 7R. How did you get tube cement from what I said? When has capillary action become a valid method for distributing tube cement??
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
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#056
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:36 AM UTC
Tim

Quoted Text

1) put a thin line of cement about 2mm from the edge of the trailing edge of the 1/2 wing pieces (B1, B7) and a very little bit along the outer edge of these pieces.



:-)panic over, it read as if you were putting glue on before joining parts, classic tube cement practice. just hope Roger is aware, never thought, what wiv 'im bein' a sprog builder an all
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:44 AM UTC
Ah Okay. On surfaces where I have a large flat area to work with ONLY, such as the contact area found on many wing trailing edge halves, I do put the cement on first. It's not often but I find it makes it easier for me to align the remaining edges, that are more prone to close scrutiny, if some part of it is held slightly. That's also why I keep it away from the edge and only use a very small amount, so it doesn't smoosh (technical term) out the sides.
Favorisio
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 10:18 AM UTC
Sorry I picked up on the latest posts a bit late, but I've had a family medical emergency today, all is under control now though, I hope.

Right, you guys have me a bit confused now I normally (armour) use Revell Contacta Professional, a liquid cement. I presume this is what I should be using. I also gather that I should be applying the glue by capillary action and not by applying first and then assembling. Or is that only for the wing halves. When I assemble a gun barrel I glue normally and the sand the excess glue off after it has set completely. This sounds as though it is different to your methods. Maybe I need a lesson

I have decided to leave out the pilot, and have the plane on the ground, like Tim. So, should I have the guns covered?

I am ready to start now, and my first job was to be to glue Control Stick and Seat to Base and glue Seat adjustment lever and Rudder pedals also, then paint (after I made up my "Interior" paint mix). Also glue the Voltage Regulator and Headrest to A14 and paint. Then paint dashboard as per your previus method. Does this all sound about right?

Sorry for the lateness of these questions, but better late than never.

Oh, can I use my normal gluing method for these parts safely?

Presumably the Red you mentioned for the seat is for the whole seat? Excluding the black padding as per the instructions? X-18 part.

Hope these questions are clear. I will be in the caht room for a while now if you read this soon.

Roger
TankCarl
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 10:58 AM UTC
ok,I have most of the tools like they show in the picture in the instruction sheet.Are these OK? My tweezers have the bend just like Tamiya shows! But I want to use My exacto type knife instead.(Note the noroll elastic band on the end.)



#:-)
TankCarl
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:05 AM UTC
I've started in:



But I wonder,did I do it wrong by using scissors,or should I have used the Exacto knife?
Do I lose points?
Can I have a drink?
What's the capital of North Dakota?

#:-)
Favorisio
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 11:18 AM UTC
Carl,

Why oh why did you not just remove the staples from the bag?????

I have got this far, but now I'm stuck


Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 01:50 PM UTC
You guys are hilarious.

Roger: Glue as you normally would. There was just a little confusion between me and Mal on how I do things. The wings are a special case for me. You are good to go on that front. Sorry for the confusion.

Carl:1) I would have chosen a larger pair of scissors, but I go through life like a bull in a china shop. 2) No points lost, originality is good. 3) Mugs away!! 4) Bismarck
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 06:11 PM UTC
My first days work:

not pictured below is the fuselage halves painted and the wings glued together. I need more Matt Black for the console or I would have gotten that done today too Drilling those little holes in the frame reminded me how much I hate drilling the brake rotors on cars. Didn't take me nearly as long though. (15 minutes compared to several hours)



Here is a better pic of the seat:
Favorisio
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 07:07 PM UTC
Question about the seat fitting. The fit of the seat in the base is VERY loose, a lot of front to back movement. When I dry fit the back of the frame and the seat is looks as though the seat angles back to rest on the frame. How can you glue the seat in place without the frame back? Would it not be best to fit the back to the base and then fit the seat?

Tim - are you weathering the parts as you go, certainly looks like it? Seat looks good. What about weathering the other interior parts? Did you use a lightened colour and drybrush the seat?

Tim - can't quite tell from the pic, but what colour is the seat adjustment lever? It looks as though you've done the handle part silver? and the flat part of it interior?

I wouldn't have thought of detailing the wire on the control stick, that's why it's good to see these kind of pics, thanks :-) The tiny little bit on top of the control stick looks interior colour, right?

I am going to do a "sub-assembly" and then paint aproach. Hope to get on further tonight after my hospital visiting.

Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 07:34 PM UTC
The seat isn't glued in yet. It's just 'stuck' into place with a little silly putty.

Weathering depends on the parts. The interior gets weathered as I go because once it's in the aircraft it's all but impossible to do. And since I had the wash made to weather the inside of the fuselage I went ahead and did the pilot access panel too. Also handling the parts after I've put some weathering on them smooths the paint out and gives it more subtle transitions. The seat back is dry brushed with PollyS Grimy Black. It's a dark grayish black color. The seat itself has MM Acryl Dark Tan on it to simulate the lighter sections of worn leather. I'm not crazy about it, but it doesn't look too bad. The Interior Green parts have a homebrew mix on them: ~2 parts Int Green + ~1 part Grimy Black + ~4-5 parts thinner to make it into a wash.

The seat adjustment lever is Int Green with a black handle painted on the last 1/2 of the handle and the little button is White.

The little button on the control stick is actually Tamiya's Titanium Gold. It's a pale gold color.
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
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#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:14 PM UTC
:-) TankCarl, now thats a novel approach to opening a plastic bag, I normally rip them open but I'm considering using scissors on my next one. Do you use any special brand of scissor?

Roger
Sorry about the confusion over the gluing thing.
Bare in mind that I haven't started mine yet and that it was a long time ago when I built my last one. Because of your concern over the angle of the seat, I would do a dry run. Remember that the frame should be vertical, so if the seat angles back to meet it, thats how it should be. Test fit into a fuselage half
The little bit on top of the control yoke is the firing button. The piece running diaganaly is the brake lever. The gun button and its housing were made of brass. I think they were painted, black? with the gun button red? but the paint wore off. (Because there were alot of 109s to shoot down).
Seat adjustment lever would be Int green but heavily worn to bare metal where it is gripped. Just re-read Tims answer for this. I'm interested where the black handle white butten comes from? Remember pics from restored aircraft will have differences to the prototype.
Have you painted the instrument panel yet? (White dials then black) if you get to that stage, when the paint is dry, take you previously manufactured sharp point and carefully scribe in dial detail. If you black paint is thin, on the dials this will be quite easy. You will not get a very good representation, even a few wayward scratches can look good, once future is add and its in position. Go for singlre hands on some with a line around the edge, or partly around. Do 2 hands, like a clock on others. I'll see if I dig you out a pic as reference.
Tim
Your seat looks good :-)

Got to go, putting the antenna wire on my 109 E-4 Galland then it's finished, taking pics and will be posting them tonight. (I have revision to do for my exams tomorrow)
Mal
stugiiif
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:42 PM UTC
ok guys anne and i are starting tonight, we both have academy kits(thought it would be easier if we used the same one, kinda, mine is a c hers is an e) and we'll post pics of our kits after the kids are asleep and in bed!!!! she needs time to work!!! stug
TwistedFate
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Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 05:08 AM UTC
Mal: I just made the adjustment lever color up. A lot of time in cockpits I throw historical accuracy out the window in favor of an interesting looking interior. This is more often the case in modern aircraft where the whole cockpit is black/gray and boring at small scale, but I liked the idea of an actual handle so I painted it that way.
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
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#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 09:07 AM UTC
:-) Tim
Should look pretty coooool.
Now I've got the 2nd of the 3 Amigos finished (see RRB) and with my final exams out of the way tomorrow. My priority for the weekend will be Amigo No 3, Then I will start my Spit. As I've got the interior of my Lysander preped and waiting paint, that will get going aswell. Mustn't forget my Corsair for that build either. Oh, nearly forgot, I have a Hasegawa Mk V started so I'll crack on with that also :-) At this rate I will soon only have unstarted kits. That will mean a Mossi and Beau group builds :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Mal
TankCarl
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Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 12:11 PM UTC
HOLDFAST
Thank you for your inquiry as to the brand of scissor I use.The choice and selection of scissor must not be hurried,nor taken lightly.
In my many years of modeling,i have found possesing the correct cutting instrument to be of paramount importance.Cleaving plastic bag wrappings is not a part of the modeling experiance to be casually done,or with an excess of abandon.So,with these thoughts guiding my choice of cutting implement,I reached to my tool caddy and chose what I find to be a damn fine instrument.
A pair of ECHO scissors.made in Pakistan.



I need a drink.
Favorisio
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Posted: Friday, March 07, 2003 - 11:25 AM UTC
Well, Tim's pics gave me the clues I needed to move forward... :-)


Need to do any weathering on the seat etc and glue all parts together. Then work on dials. I have also base coated the inside of the cockpit on the fusilage halves.

So.... should I wash the seat and stuff? I guess so, if just to tie it in with the fusilage interior which obviously (I hope) now needs a wash to bring out the panel lines before fitting other detail and painting the details. But... should I future coat before this wash? Then matt laquer after? All over wash? or just on the panel lines? I thought all over. With a black wash as it's internal and may be hard to see otherwise.

I would like to have the pilot access door open (I think), so it looks like I need to cut it out of the fusilage and re-glue it in the open position..... but.... how? The plastic seems thinner here and so may cut with an x-acto? Seems a bit drastic, but I can't see another way.

I have some PE seat belts now, any tips on fitting these? I hope so... #:-) How, and when?

Sorry for all the questions, but I don't want to get too far along a wrong track

Roger
Favorisio
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Posted: Friday, March 07, 2003 - 11:31 AM UTC
Oops, just seen part A29, the open access door. #:-) #:-) #:-)

So I must have to just cut out the other section and file and sand the edges?

Roger
TwistedFate
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Posted: Friday, March 07, 2003 - 01:01 PM UTC
Looks good, Roger.

Pilot Access panel: yes just cut the one out of the fuselage and sand the edges. The easiest way is with a panel scriber, but not being a airplane guy you may not have one. I don't know if armor uses them or not. Anyway, an X-Acto is fine, use several light cuts to cut through instead of one deep cut. You don't really need to keep it once you cut it out as the kit supplies a replacement, but I have mine laying in the box incase I need it for something. Realize before you cut that having this panel open means having the canopy in the open position too. Not a big deal, just something to keep in mind as it may make masking for the camo paint more difficult, depending on whether you glue the canopy down before or after your main painting.

Weathering: I use a mix of paint that is slightly darker than the surrounding areas in the cockpit as my plane will represent a fairly new plane and I only want to accentuate the shadows and maybe show a little grime. A more used plane would have more dirt and possibly some rust in it. I only coat the outside with Future prior to applying decals, I don't really see a need to do it in the cockpit, but that's just me.

I can't help with the PE belts. I'm not using them.

Now on to my progress. I didn't get a whole lot done because I spent some time on the forbidden 4-wheel projects. ewwwwww. I did manage to the get the console painted, and scratched. (thanks Mal, it's the first time I've ever done it that way. It'll turn out better next time, now that I know how to do it.) Here it is. I gave it a good drybrushing of white to bring out some of the rings around the dials to make it a little more interesting to look at and then gave each dial a drop of Kristal Kleer to simulate lenses.


It's not actually glued in backwards, I'm just using the seat assembly as a prop to stand it up. Sorry it's a little blurry, my cheap digicam doesn't do too well on close ups in inside lighting.