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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
The straw that broke the Camel's back?
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 05:01 PM UTC
Hi Stephen!

Well, sorry, calm down... these are only profiles I found in a magazine...
A decal sheet of this would be very cool and very expensive for sure! But I'm afraid, right now, the only way to reproduce this paintsheme is an intensive use of masking tape! :-) I thought of doing it on the Academy 1/32 kit I have in my stash... should be easier than in 1/48 scale...

Jean-Luc
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 04:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Yet if Eduard is listening maybe we could get some colourful flight instructor markings in a future issue?



Hi Stephen!

Something like that?

Jean-Luc



Uh er why...YES!!!!!!! Are they in 1/48 scale ,....where can I get them.... how much are they???? uh , uh, (suddenly my warm fuzzy has exploded into a blistering mushroom!)
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 04:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Yet if Eduard is listening maybe we could get some colourful flight instructor markings in a future issue?



Hi Stephen!

Something like that?



Jean-Luc
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 03:28 PM UTC
Noting the information on the profiles of the Profipack kit #8056 were a little skinny I checked out the online info to compare the Dual Combo kit. Some one at Eduard has been dipping into the "The Camel Files" one of the references I have listed previously. But they seemed to have missed a couple of items that I'll include here.

A. Sopwith Camel F.1 B3834 was flown by Flt. Lt. A. F. Brandon of the Manston War Flight at RNAS Manston War School in August 1917. “Wonga - Bonga” was the phrase used to describe the sounds made by the engines on a Gotha Bomber. Manston started its aviation days as a Royal Naval Station in 1916, with a base at Westgate Bay for seaplanes. The early airfield was on the area now occupied by the passenger terminal. By 1917 Manston airfield had grown to include four underground hangars, its own railway line to Birchington, a power station to generate electricity, barracks for 3,000 men and even an indoor swimming pool. Using this machine Flt. Lt. Brandon helped destroy a Gotha in flames on 22 August 1917. “Wonga - Bonga” was damaged with a bullet in #6 cylinder, but landed safely.

B. Sopwith Camel F.1 B7296 was crashed by 2/Lt. G. S. Hodson of B flight of 73 Sqdn RFC in France 2 February 1918 (Not 1917.) Rebuilt and fitted with a Clerget 9Bf 140hp rotary. Sent to 208 RAF and crashed on 16 April 1918. Repaired and sent to 51 TDS by 4 November 1918.

C. Sopwith Camel F.1 was flown by Lt. Hollington of 37 Home Defense Sdqn RAF in August 1918.

D. Sopwith Camel F.1 F6022 was the rebuilt airframe from D1813. flown by Captain R. Sykes of 201 Sqdn RAF in France during October 1918. It was sent to 203 RAF by 23 January 1919.

E. Sopwith Camel F.1 B6212 with a Bentley BR. 1 150hp rotary was flown by Flt. Sub-Lt. W.A. Moyle of Sea plane Defense Squadron at St. Pol France in December 1917. This unit became 13N Sqdn RNAS by 15 January 1918. It was damaged on 19 February 1918 when flown by Flt. Sub-Lt. W. J. Mackenzie. Then repaired and sent to 203 RAF by 10 April 1918 where it was flown by an American, 1/Lt. W. W. Goodlow. Last recorded as being at Farnborough 30 June 1918.

F. Sopwith Camel F.1 D3332 was flown by Flt. Cmdr O.C. “Boots” Le Boutillier of 9N up-til 24 March 1918 when it was crashed. Repaired it was sent to 204 RAF until 2 August 1918 where it was sent to 210 RAF where after several pilots it was assigned to Captain A. W. Carter. The white dumbbell seen on the profile was not adopted by 210 RAF as a unit marking until November 1918.

Of additional note "Boots" was an American with 209 RAFand in the air the day Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen was KIA (on 21 April 1918.) "Boots" was a grand fellow and recounted his brief observations that day on more than one occassion. He returned to the States after the war and finally settled and retired in Las Vegas Nevada.

G. Sopwith Camel F.1 B6313 was flown by Major W.G. Barker while he was assigned to 28 Sqdn and it had been with this unit since 24 Sept. 1917. His first victory on this machine came on 20 October 1917. He continued to us this aircraft after 28 RFC arrived in Italy. Then as CO of 139 Sqdn RAF in Italy during June 1918. This bird had a lengthy war service and was repainted several times.

H. Sopwith Camel F.1 B6313 was flown by Major W.G. Barker as CO of 139 Sqdn RAF in Italy during September 1918. It was dismantled on 2 October 1918. This bird had a lengthy war service and was repainted several times.

By the way B6313 came from the factory with the standard coaming (C2) but by July 1918 it was photographed with others of 28 RAF Sqn with a cutdown coaming (C7).
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, May 05, 2006 - 05:21 PM UTC
Just a thought...Eduard has repackaged a good kit using minimal investments in additional artwork. The up-side for them is stock reduction with more profit. The average modeler gets two Camels for a very reasonable price. Everybody’s a winner. That is what we can expect from them in the next few years. Yet if Eduard is listening maybe we could get some colourful flight instructor markings in a future issue? Also co-operation between a model manufacturer and a decal manufacturer would just be the next step in bringing the average modeler everything they need in one box.
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 02:44 PM UTC
Greetings all;

I have been making good progress on the Eduard Camel at my disposal. I have to remind myself not to put iron crosses on the Camel while I am working on the Fokker D.VII. Ok its not that bad. I am working on a side by side comparison of the stock Camel engine and a couple of resin variations.

If you have never heard of Vector try Neomega
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, May 01, 2006 - 04:27 AM UTC
The crate landed on my doorstep today. pieces to the Albatros built Fokker D.VII and the pieces to a complete Sopwith Camel from the Dual Combo kit. Early eval looks good and clean up is started. Strap it down tight folks its gonna be a humpy ride...Ok bad play on words, but I couldn't resist.

JackFlash in the hangar burning the midnight oil. Somebody bring me lots of coffee and a pepperoni and black olive pizza.
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 07:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Be warned its a Bentley 150hp rotary so there are some differences the Eduard did not include in their instructions for kit #8058 if you want the look of a Bentley you will have to alter your kit item a bit.



Thanks Stephen, as I don't have any references do you know of any on the web that would give me what I need?
Mal



Yes both Camels Datafiles have some good information but if you want to try building your own Bentley try this;

April 30, 2009. Note this site quoted for WWImodeler.com website has been hacked and rerouted to an adult online dating site.
Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 05:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Be warned its a Bentley 150hp rotary so there are some differences the Eduard did not include in their instructions for kit #8058 if you want the look of a Bentley you will have to alter your kit item a bit.



Thanks Stephen, as I don't have any references do you know of any on the web that would give me what I need?
Mal
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 06:01 AM UTC
Mine came from the original Profipack instructions. I noted the difference when I went to the Eduard Website and scanned their online instructions.
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:40 PM UTC
Thanks Stephen

That is totally bizarre! I've got the identical diagrams - but laid out differently on the page and with no mention of which decking goes with which of the colour schemes.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile.



Hi Stephen

That's odd - I can't that on my Page 6... the coamings are in the centre of the page and it doesn't key them to the colour schemes. The same is true of the various photoetched panels to attach (PE23, 24, 25 & 26) - I forgot to ask about them! :-)

Cheers

Rowan



See below.


JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 08:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi again Stephen
I was just looking at the drawings you sent me that include the Bentley cowling - it's really quite a different profile, isn't it. I'll have a go at modifying the kit item to look a bit more like it, and include the changes to the engine itself that you mentioned. It might be a bit of a fudge, but we'll see how it looks. Is there an aftermarket alternative available? All the best Rowan



Yep it is a bit of a different animal. No aftermarket Bentley 150hp rotary is available that I know of.
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 03:07 PM UTC
Hi again Stephen

I was just looking at the drawings you sent me that include the Bently cowling - it's really quite a different profile, isn't it. I'll have a go at modifying the kit item to look a bit more like it, and include the changes to the engine itself that you mentioned. It might be a bit of a fudge, but we'll see how it looks. Is there an aftermarket alternative available?

All the best

Rowan

Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile.



Hi Stephen

That's odd - I can't that on my Page 6... the coamings are in the centre of the page and it doesn't key them to the colour schemes. The same is true of the various photoetched panels to attach (PE23, 24, 25 & 26) - I forgot to ask about them! :-)

Cheers

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I must have missed this
I have Eduards 2F.1 Sopwith Camel which I was drawn to because the box art shows one with a blue and white checkered nose. From the little info I have I think this is a Navy? Camel that took part in the first raid launched from a ship, the raid was on an airship base I think. Anyway I want to build this sooner rather than later so all infor will be welcome...I can certainly see the attraction of WW 1 subjects and you really have to admire the pilots that flew these machines in combat. Mal



Correct Mal. The Datafile #6 on the Sop. 2F1 "Camel" has an account on this aircraft. You see Eduard has been sourcing the Datafiles for years. The cover of #6 has this machine's profile. Then on page 20 a nice image of Capt. B.A. Smart poses beside this machine. He used it on a flight against the Tondern Airship base on 19 July 1918. Be warned its a Bentley 150hp rotary so there are some differences the Eduard did not include in their instructions for kit #8058 if you want the look of a Bentley you will have to alter your kit item a bit. Regards Stephen
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 02:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen...I started cleaning up parts for "Black Prince". Eduard incude an optional cutaway fuselage top decking around the guns, but show all the decal options with the standard one. Is that right for my build? All the best Rowan



Greetings Rowan Page 6 of the instructions top of the page has the break down of the top deck / cockpit coaming assignments by profile. C 7 has the right side of the cockpit cut lower for easier access to the right Vickers gun breech. Your scheme "E" is right for the modified coaming. The profiles only show the left side of the profile. No worries. Stephen
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 01:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here are some of the references I'll be using.



Hi Stephen

My Camel refs are a bit more basic! :-) I tried to get the Datafile the other day, but had no luck. I have the old Scale Models magazine at my family home (20 years worth of mags was hard to carry up to London on the train! LOL!), but I've got Ray Rimell's article from Scale Models - 1982 Warplane Special here. Is that a reprint?

I started cleaning up parts for "Black Prince". Eduard incude an optional cutaway fuselage top decking around the guns, but show all the decal options with the standard one. Is that right for my build?

All the best

Rowan
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Errr what's this about tackling tighteners Rowan?



Hi Mal

I did a bit of lateral thinking (always painful for a goon like me!) and am going to try combining the two techniques I llustrated in my "making fake chains andd spings" Feature. I reckon I should end up with tiny loops with twisted stems. I bought some fine fusewire yesterday, so I'll give it a go later and post the results.

All the best

Rowan
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 04:05 AM UTC
Here's a bit of fun. "Bob's Buckles"
http://members.lycos.co.uk/wind1/
Holdfast
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Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:43 AM UTC
I must have missed this
I have Eduards 2F.1 Sopwith Camel which I was drawn to because the box art shows one with a blue and white checkered nose. From the little info I have I think this is a Navy? Camel that took part in the first raid launched from a ship, the raid was on an airship base I think. Anyway I want to build this sooner rather than later so all infor will be welcome.
What with the F.2B, Camel and now the Fokker D.VII I might be terning to the...............errr............bright side I can certainly see the attraction of WW 1 subjects and you really have to admire the pilots that flew these machines in combat.
Errr what's this about tackling tighteners Rowan?
Mal
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 - 02:52 PM UTC
Well I have been making some progress on my side of the Camel flight. Thought I might give you all a bit of a head start as well. Here are some of the references I'll be using.

References;
1. General Arrangement Drawings of the F.1 & 2F.1 (printed in 1/48 Scale) by W.R. Titus from Cross & Cockade USA , Vol.7 #1, Pp.81-92, 1966.
2. Royal Naval Shipboard Aircraft Developments 1912 to 1931 by Dick Cronin, Air Britain Pub.1991.
3. Sopwith 2 F.1 Camel by J. M Bruce, Windsock Datafile #6, Albatros Publications, 198?
4. Sopwith Camel, PAM News Intl. Pp641-646, February 1979.
5. Sopwith Camel by J.M.Bruce, Windsock Datafile 26, Albatros Publications, 1991.
6. Sopwith Camel - King of Combat, by C. Bowyer, Aston Pub. Ltd. 1988.
7. Sopwith Fighters by J.M. Bruce, Vintage Warbirds #3, Arms & Armor Press, 1986.
8. The Legendary Sopwith F.1 Camel by Ray Rimell, Scale Models Pp.509-511, October 1978.
9. The Sopwith Camel F.1 by J.M.Bruce Profile #31, Profile Publications 1965.
10. The Camel File by R. Sturdivant & G. Page Air Britain Pub. 1993.
11.The Camel Drivers by Otis Lowell Reed George Roland, Schiffer Books, 2005.
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 08:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[Hey guys, I'm envious! I'll work now to finish my 1/48 Blue Max Berg Phoenix D.II. I don't know if Camels met Phoenix in combat, but I saw both in a museum



For Camels over Italy flying against the Austro -Hungarians B6313 flown by Major Barker while he commanded the 139th RAF is an nice representaion. He last flew it in Sept.1918. This is the same Barker that took on three elements of JG. III in a lone Sopwith Snipe on the western front in late 1918. Also 28, 45 and 66 Sqdns RFC / RAF served on the Italian front in 1918.

In the Lafayette Foundation we have the uniform and effects of Canadian Lt. Gerald Birks of 66 Sqdn who flew against Josef Kiss and claimed him as a victory.

See Sopwith Camel Aces of WWI by Franks, Osprey aircraft of the aces #52. Subsection Camels over Italy Pp. 78 - 87.
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 07:59 AM UTC
Primarily a preview should be an evaluation on a specific kit before the glue hits the plastic as it were.

First the Combo kit #8060 is literally the Eduard Profipack #8057 with a second full set of plastic sprues, etch metal fret and express masks. The over all cost increase it about $7 - 8.00 USD . For two complete Eduard kits a very nice value.

With the Profipack Eduard went back andf fixed their misidentification problems with their instructions in the first issue Camel kit #8056.

Possible aftermarket sets are the Eagle Strike and Aeromaster decals. Then "Vector" has the Clerget 9 cyl rotary, the 160hp Gnome monosoupape (mostly seen on American purchased Camels) or the 120hp LeRhone 9 cyl rotaries are possible as well

Wish list; for the Eduard Camel we sure could use an aftermarket Bentley rotary and extended cowl. Also the Sopwith F. 1 "Comic" version.
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

With all the rigging on that aircraft, I'll have to wait until I become more experienced with it (Ironic, considering I'm listening to Jimi Hendrix right now !).



Hi Bill

I know what you mean! It's certailnly going to be a lot more complicated than my previous builds - I was actually daydreaming about how to tackle all the tighteners while I went shopping yesterday! (Was it daydreaming or a waking nightmare?!) :-)

Are you a Hendrix fan too? Cool! I always new you're a man of excellent taste!

All the best

Rowan