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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Is this a jeep?
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
Joined: May 01, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:23 AM UTC
Hello all
could some one please tell me what type of gun that is on the back and if it is a jeep
Thank you http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album18&id=aaa&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:29 AM UTC
The gun is a 37mm anti tank gun. The truck is a Dodge WC55 (3/4ton weapons carrier).

The vehicle was the M6 37mm Gun Motor Carriage.
AIRB842586
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Arizona, United States
Joined: October 09, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:33 AM UTC
A very interesting piece of equipment, does look a bit like a jeep, never seen one before. Was is widely used?
WeWillHold
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:34 AM UTC
Andy, I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I believe that may be a Weapons Carrier rather than a jeep. Look's like a 50cal on the front, (can you imagine trying to hit something the way that guy is positioned??), and that's probably a 37mm on the back end.

Other's far more knowledgable than I will correct me if I'm wrong, (and have specifics about this vehicle for you). Neat picture!

HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:43 AM UTC
Yes, it was pretty widely used early in WWII as an anti-tank weapons system before armored Tank Killers such as the M10 and M36 came into use. Italeri used to offer this as one of the variants of their old Peerless dodge 3/4 ton truck series. It is still pretty easy to find in hobby shops or on-line auction sites.
AIRB842586
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:51 AM UTC
Thanks Gino, there isn't anything you can't learn from this site. I'm gonna start posting my math homework!

#:-)
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 11:05 AM UTC
It started as the T21, than was changed to the M4 37mm GMC, than changed again to the M6 37mm GMC.
This vehicle was designed as a stop-gap until the T22 GMC was available. Production began in '42 and lasted through till the fall. Unofficially it was called the "Fargo" because it was manufactured by the Fargo Division of Chrysler. About 5400 were produced.
It was in combat in North Africa and proved to be a disaster as a TD. In the Pacific theater it was more successful.
Most were stripped of their guns and converted back to WCs.
shiryon
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 11:43 AM UTC
I actually remember some pics of the marines using the vehicle(without .50 though)

Josh Weingarten
aKa shiryon
Armor135
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 12:49 PM UTC
I recgonize the gun, doesnt Skybow do a kit that resembles that picture.?

Never seen a 50cal. positioned on the front of a jeep like that, anyone know why they did that? For protection against aircraft, while they were firing the gun in the back??

Mike
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 01:36 PM UTC
Skybow makes the WC51 which is the closest to the WC55 that's out there. (new kit wise) No AT gun in the kit though. The only glaring differences is the WC55 needs the tow winch on the front and the bed sides need to be omitted.



WC51


WC55


Italeri's offering is this (like Heavy said- the old Peerless Max kit): This is not that bad a kit - it would greatly benefit from the Eduard PE set # 35046...if you can find it.
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 02:35 PM UTC
This is probaly a silly question but could you mount a anti tank gun on the back of a jeep?
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 03:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is probaly a silly question but could you mount a anti tank gun on the back of a jeep?

It would probably be possible to mount the 37mm gun on there, but the ton capacity of the Jeep versus the ton capacity of the Beep probably wouldn't allow for any ammo or additional crew members to be carried. Besides, the recoil would be the biggest difficulty to handle.
ARMDCAV
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United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 03:39 PM UTC
The only weapon I've seen bigger than 50. cal mounted on a jeep was the 106mm recoiles rifle.
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 05:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm just shooting from the hip here



You're just like the guys on the left on the pic then.....he's shooting from the hip too.. #:-)
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 08:02 PM UTC
I thave this Italery kit on the shelf and I read about that Eduard PE set # 35046.

I searched the Eduard website but can't vind it , what kind of PE set is it and is it still on the market or out of prod.?

(:-) (:-)
MrRoo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 09:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The only weapon I've seen bigger than 50. cal mounted on a jeep was the 106mm recoiles rifle.

In a tech manual I have on MG mounts for vehicles 1943 it was officially a very big NO NO to mount anything larger than a 30 Cal MG on a jeep. However what was done unofficially in the field is another matter. Does anyone have photos (original WW2) of anything bigger mounted on a jeep?

Cliff
ukgeoff
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England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:03 PM UTC
In actual fact , a 37mm gun was mounted on a Jeep, but only experimentally. The jeep used was the early Bantam design.



Kencelot
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:39 PM UTC
Ronny, the PE set for the Italeri M6 is OOP. I've been looking for one for a while now.

Great pics Geoff!
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:46 PM UTC
DAMN
stugiiif
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 02:23 AM UTC
that is an M6 37mm GMC (gun motor carriage) and according to SQUDRON'S US TANK DESTROYER in ACTION they were grossly inefficient and production was stoped those in service were converted into to weapons carries. but that is a great pic...stug
MrRoo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 08:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In actual fact , a 37mm gun was mounted on a Jeep, but only experimentally. The jeep used was the early Bantam design. COOL. the recoil from the rear facing one would mean a faster getaway.
Cliff




ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 23, 2002 - 12:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The only weapon I've seen bigger than 50. cal mounted on a jeep was the 106mm recoiles rifle.

In a tech manual I have on MG mounts for vehicles 1943 it was officially a very big NO NO to mount anything larger than a 30 Cal MG on a jeep. However what was done unofficially in the field is another matter. Does anyone have photos (original WW2) of anything bigger mounted on a jeep?



The problem is the recoil of the weapon. The mount of the weapon has to transmit the recoil to the vehicle itself. Since the bed of many light vehicles is basically sheet metal, bolting the mount to the bed isn't a lot of help. Even reinforcing the bed, or bolting the mount through to the frame doesn't help a lot if the frame is not designed for the stress. A .50 cal would literally rip the mount out of the floor of the jeep. The official line was "no" because they don't want their jeeps ruined. The guy-in-the-mud line was 'hell, yes!" because then he didn't have to carry it, and he didn't care about ruining the jeep. The problem with mounting a 37mm gun in a jeep isn't so much whether it will carry it, but more whether you will get more than a few shots before the gun falls off.

The truck mounted AT gun program was doomed from the beginning. The guns were underpowered, and only marginally effective at a shorter range than the 50+mm guns of the Germans (North Africa). Only a very foolhardy soldier will engage a tank inside it's effective range with a gun that can't always knock it out.