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Dioramas: Campaigns
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Armorama diorama contest ?
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Friday, October 25, 2002 - 08:49 PM UTC
After reading the post on the "silent death tower", I got the idea of creating an Amorama contest ?

We could specify the rules before (to be discussed in the post below and finalized in a mess hall discussion at given time and date ?):

The rules might include
- what to build : content, scale, max size
- involving a specified model subject, some scratchbuilding for buildings and some nature elements
- set a deadline
- everyone can send five or ten good pictures
- there's an independent jury of armorama people (who do not participate) who can judge the enties (which can not be identified with their builder to keep it neutral)
- a judging scheme can be agreed upon, giving points for specific merits (quality of scratchbuilding, building of model and figures, painting, the presence of "tough elements" like water, ice, vegetation, grass, smoke, snow,... etc
- the winner does NOT get a prize, but some sort of medal or ribbon published next to his avatar
- We could do a few of those every year...

What do you guys think ?


vlady
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Posted: Friday, October 25, 2002 - 09:43 PM UTC
nice idear but when does it starts?
Envar
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 05:51 AM UTC
I like the idea. Whether we call it group build or a contest, all the same to me. There have been many topics about people making their first dioramas and/or having difficulties in deciding subject for a small diorama.
A sniper would be an ideal subject to start with. There is no need for big environment, one figure is enough. Not too expensive, not too much building. And still all the basic elements of designing a tight, powerful scene.

I´d like to suggest a following briefing:

Subject: A sniper vignette
- You will have to determine a way to show a sniper who likes to hide
- The background story. What the situation is? Is the sniper laying still the whole day or is the situation more hectic? How does a single sniper prepare himself for the day in the field? What equipment does he have? Is he aiming, shooting, getting in the position, eating his lunch, leaving his post?

Time and place: You name it
- ww2, ´Nam, modern...

Scale: 1:35
- Plenty of choice in plastic, cheap figures
- Sniper with only the essential surrounding make a compact vignette

Position: Inside a building.
- The scratchbuilding element
- There are plenty of articles, tips&tricks available for making a ruined building
- The type of building, it should fit the historical background and era

Plus:
- This project could be executed in decent amount of working hours
- It´s not too big in size or heavy for the wallet
- The difference between approaches within the given task

We could gather a group of interested people, discuss about this subject at first and then go for the building part. I think we should have the possibilty to develop the idea of each vignette by discussing, then go for the build and of course give technical help along the way one way or another. This would be bad for the "competition" idea but I think it´s more important to learn how to do things according to the personal idea instead of finding out in the end what went wrong.
All of this would be also in the spirit of constructive criticism. Some of the things are about taste, other things are not, like historical accuracy (or the possibilty of the scene).

I toss the ball to all of you who are interested, you can count me in!



Toni
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 07:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

.../...and of course give technical help along the way one way or another. This would be bad for the "competition" idea but I think it´s more important to learn how to do things .../...



I absolutely agree with that. I don't think a prize should be involved. Maybe even a ribbon or medal for all who participate in the event and send pictures, not only to those who come out as winners. That would encourage beginners to join in, whereas they may be scared away from the competition of more experienced hands.

(My fingers itch to start building already) !
slodder
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 08:17 AM UTC
TIme to stop watching and jump in - Count me in.
andy007
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 09:27 AM UTC
[quote]I don't think a prize should be involved. Maybe even a ribbon or medal for all who participate in the event and send pictures, not only to those who come out as winners. That would encourage beginners to join in, whereas they may be scared away from the competition of more experienced hands.

I like that idea a lot Beleive me beginners never like to duel with the masters of the glue

Andrew
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 09:52 AM UTC
O.K., I love this idea, but...as has already been touched on, we are lucky enough to have some extremely talented dio artist's here at Armorama. I build almost all of my kits with a dio in mind, but some actually are part of a dio and some aren't (my laziness/or lack of time). I certainly don't want to be guilty of putting the 'kabosh' on a dio joint build, since I love dio's, but I guess what I'm saying is the word 'competition' is wrong.
I believe we all want to build dio's but lack the skill,multi-talent,money, etc., to bring it to fruition. So, IMHO, a joint build 'theme' is a wonderful idea that with any luck would have the support and guidance of the likes of KFMagee, Envar, Anders, Gunnie, Dali Lama, Alan Greenspan, Dav.................oops, sorry, got a little carried away there........my fault... #:-)
Anyway, hopefully I've not completely diluted my point...

Tread.

So...when do we start?

P.S. If this 'dio' thingie includes figures, then I want to suggest the (I think) novel idea of 'teams'. Yeah, that's right, teams. Since my fig's are a bit lacking, I know who I've got 'dibs' on!...
staff_Jim
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:16 AM UTC
Jan,
Great idea. Here is my contribution (idea wise). Since no prize, call it a "campaign". And for participating in the "1st Annual Diorama Campaign" you will receive a campaign ribbon (similar to the moderator ribbon). I think everyone with any military experience or history understands the significance of these campaign ribbons.

We can also set up a special gallery area where users can upload images directly (provided they are below the set file size) to a gallery of their own. They will be able to do either in-progress images, completed images, or both.

To do this I will need a roster of those participating.

Cheers,
Jim
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:23 AM UTC
Damn Jim!!
As is always the case, it seems. Your 'Campaign Ribbon' idea is exquisite! (I believe HP would be lucky tp get a fella like you on their team! )
Now, if we can just coordinate the whole support structure idea, I believe Jan's proposal is also a stroke of genius!

Tread.

Good on ya Jan!
staff_Jim
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:27 AM UTC
Might I also suggest that choosing a theme would be a nice idea to tie this all together. I would vote for a "Winter Scene" theme for instance as we are going into winter obviously, but also I get the impression that it's something some of us find intimidating and perhaps have been putting off trying. This would be a nice way to push some of us "fraidy-cats" into it. lol

Heck I may even have to get in on this!
Envar
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:41 AM UTC
Very good points made here !
I´m on for the "winter theme"... I want to come up with a solution that doesn´t turn yellow in a couple of months (as my White Death did, because of the wrong glue used )!
The main point I think would be that people would throw themselves into something they may not have tried before. As a result of a "campaign" like this could be a few more modellers that broke a line they ever crossed before and all of us would benefit from some custom recipes for snow, for example!
Jim, our captain, great input, once again!

We´ll getting there pretty soon...

Toni
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:42 AM UTC
O.K!.......you're still "working on all cylinder's" there Jim!



Now...how about ingredient's? Or setting? Or year?

Hmmmm, now let's see, Winter setting's? Gee, Kursk? (too large?)......Ardenne's? (too 'done'?).......Huertgen? (too may fig's ).......Heck, what do you guys suggest???

Tread.
YodaMan
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 11:59 AM UTC
Hmmm... I like it! :-)

Winter.
Cold, bleak, still.
A sniper takes cover in a half destroyed guardhouse, readying his gun.
A chilling wind sweeps over the area... with it, comes the sound of approacing vehicles.
They are coming.
Sniper looks toward the far side of the bridge, and takes aim.
They are coming...

I really like it!
Start date: could we make it a little way off, mid November? That would give some of us to give figure painting a whirl... And time to pick up some craft paints.
Campaign ribbons: That is an awesome idea! It'd be cool if we had one for most of the events that go on here.. Corsair build, Luftwaffe build, dio build... While that could be too many to have near the username at once, maybe they could be displayed on the user's profile? With the option to decide which ribbon(s) he wants to show? :-)

YodaMan
PLMP110
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 12:18 PM UTC
Hey Guys,

I realize I am a new kid on the block, but all I have to say is: I'm in!!

Patrick
basturk
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Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 04:06 PM UTC
Count me in as well!! Although I ve never done a winter dio before (considering the climate in Singapore, Ive never seen snow before in my life!) This may be the perfect excuse to start on one!!! Just an idea, maybe a general theme would be sufficient as criteria in order not to prohibit creativity.
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 12:24 AM UTC
Thanks, Jim ! There's some great ideas in there from all of you. Now all we have to do is bring them together in a proposition that tastes good and go for a starting date.
I try to work on Envar's list here. Please comment on point after point.

1) Timing
-- Start date -- I agree we need not start right away, but only in a few weeks or so. That leaves us the time to finish up the project(s) we are doing now, and go find the material we need. It may take us all a week to work out and write down the procedure and the rostering, for Jim to create a ribbon, etc... Then we need to give people some time to write in on the project. How about 23 November 2002 ? (That is a Saturday).
-- End date -- not too short : some of us have other obligations in their lives and can't spend a full time on modeling. Not too long : long periods take away the interest of participants. Any suggestions ?

2) Competition element
I thought the competition idea was nice, but there are far more arguments not to do so. It would be nice if many newbies can join in. So we make it a campaign rather than a competition. Instead of a jury making a selection, pictures of the vignettes are loaded into an Armorama gallery so all can comment or make suggestions.

3)Scale
1/35, I think we all agreed on that one already.

4) Size
I like the original idea to make this a vignette : a small diorama (let's go for a maximum of 27 by 27 cm, square or round, smaller sizes are accepted, no larger. No higher than 27 cm. (arguments for alternative suggestions welcome).

5) Content
--Sniper -- Since this is about the skills of diorama-building, the content should be an individual soldier, not a vehicle. Since Envar started with the original idea, I would like to stick to the sniper idea. Our sniper is one individual, working alone. He is hidden somewhere to wait for his target, he's preparing his hideout, he's climbing in or out of his hidden position, etc...
-- Location -- I like the bell tower idea, but other places can be imagined.
-- Period -- Your choice - thousands of nice ideas spring up : A WWII german from a typical Balkan pear-shaped tower, a Vietnamese sniper at ruins in Hue, a russian guard on an Iron Wall watchtower, an indian hiding between the rocks with bow and arrow, an FBI or SWAT agent on a warehouse roof, Northern Alliance soldier at a cave entrance in Tora Bora, Gurka soldier sniping from a typical Falkland fisherman's cottage ...
--Season -- I read several suggestions on winter and snow. That takes away a number of possibilities (Vietnam, Desert Storm, ...). I like the idea of a winter diorama, but would hesitate to make that a binding condition to participate. It may scare junior modelers...
--Vehicles -- Wether a vehicle is allowed to be in the vignette as an element of the background, I want to leave open to discussion, but I would be tempted to avoid it. Scale models are not the purpose of the campaign.
--Figures -- Your choice. From a standard plastic or resin figure to your own scratchbuilt adaptation. During the campaign, you can explain what your choice was.
-- Diorama elements : The vignette can have a setting of nature (but we'll have a hard time doing that better than Envar's "white death" vignette ! ), a manmade element (buildings, bunkers, tents, cave entrance, ...) or probably a combination of both. Those who want to add extra degrees of difficulty, can discuss this among eachother (water, ice, smoke,...)
--Background story -- The vignette must tell a small story. What is the situation ? Is the sniper laying still the whole day or is the situation more hectic? How does a single sniper prepare himself for the day in the field? What equipment does he have? Is he aiming, shooting, getting in the position, eating his lunch, leaving his post? Once you decide on the subject, you submit a five line (or twenty, as you like) synopsis to the Campaign forum so everyone knows what you're up to, and that subscribes you to the Campaign so you get a ribbon.

6) Website elements :
-- a special gallery allows us to upload pictures of work under construction and final results
-- a special forum is available (within DIORAMA FORUM?) to discuss the ongoing event.
-- ribbon. Yes. Those who join this campaign get a special ribbon. Those who complete the entry, get an even nicer one (with oak leaves ? )

Those were my 2 cts...







slodder
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:20 AM UTC
The more I read the more I really want to do this.

I think GF's posting covers the idea very well and he brings up good points. My offering is that if we want to include as many people as possible that we combine the Season and Dio Elements (natural). I think snow does intimidate some people. So maybe we can say if you don't include snow you must have some natural element in the vignette.

As far as work in progress photos go we can always use the MSN group.

I like the November start time, would you say a month of build time?

Should we include any kind of 'article' written as you build. Either a 'how'd I do it' or a simple what did I use?
staff_Jim
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 03:22 AM UTC
Keith Magee is going to post his suggestion for a campaign/contest. You may have noted that Keith is now a moderator for this forum as well as a News Editor for the Diorama Focus site. Of course I still have to pass on instructions to him on doing that bit.

For myself (and by no means should my opinions weigh more in this), I would simply like to see somewhat of a group consensus on a project like this. If needed I can run a poll on whether users would prefer one approach to another.

I think the Sniper theme is fine, as long as enough users show an interest in doing it. My fear would be that some users might not be confident enough to tackle a figure like this. This is really an "omage" to Toni's White Death dio as I know I would have great difficulty attempting anything like that.

Cheers,
Jim
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 04:04 AM UTC

I just looked around on the web. I've little time now, but here's a few finds on the sniper subject.


Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 04:26 AM UTC
Cool idea. My first opinion is to stay away from the competition side of it asmuch as possible. Eventhough Ive made a few dios, Ive never made one with just a figure or with snow either. I think the idea of a ribbon for all who FINISH the project is brilliant. With the poor showings in some of the recent group builds it would be good to have a little incentive for these. Whether there is a special ribbon for winner is a group debate. It would be really positive to encourage all newcomers and those (like me) that need that extra push to attempt something new.
I think the theme shouldnt be too limited. A winter-time sniper vignette is vague enough to allow for everybody´s imagination. If there are too many constraints they will all end up very similar and take away a lot from those who may come up with something very original.
I think its important to have a fixed starting and end date as soon as possible.
Great idea Jan, its something that can and will encourage a lot of people and a lot of new skills.
Another great idea was a participants ribbon for those that finish a group build. These ribbons will be much sought after and keep more interest in ongoing projects. Maybe something like this would have helped the ongoing group builds at the moment. More work for Jim.
keenan
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 05:34 AM UTC
You may want to reconsider the timing a bit. Late Novemember to late December sits right in the middle of the holidays (Thanksgiving through Christmas) and some people are extremely busy during that time of year. At any rate, count me in. I scrounging through figures parts box as we speak.
Roadkill
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 05:58 AM UTC
After following this post with a lot of interest, you can count me in, but .... I have a few remarks.

First: the time limit, mid November is getting very close to the holidays so, that can be a problem for a few of us (like me - huge family!!) and I have another project on which I am working (I am one of those guys who needs to finish one project at a time).

Second: competition, I don't feel like getting in to a contest, I mean, this site gives us a home without that feeling of competition. But I do like the ribbon idea, give every group build that little extra.

I also think that it would be a good idea to register on a group build, so you know who is participating and for the builders to get a automatic e-mail update on the group build (if possible).

The registration function also has another use. Like I said I am working on something now so my time is limited and at the moment I don't have a digital camera anymore, so posting pictures is out for me for a while.

But ... since I am registered to this particular group build, I can build it on my own time and when I am able to post some picture, then I still could receive the ribbon.

Jim, I know there are already a lot of forums here but how about a Group Build Forum wit subdivisions like (for example) on the armor forum, give each new group build its own group preferences (for example: Sherman group build, Sniper vignette, ..)

Just a idea



Oh, jeah, the drinking is for after the building.

#:-)
Rockape
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 06:55 AM UTC
Hi people.
Great idea this diorama comp, and the single figure sniper seems a good one to start it off. If I can sugest, since no acctual prize is to be given, then keep things simple with no seperate classes for scale / scratchbuild / conversion etc, and to just judge the overall effect of the diorama as a whole. I.e, as long as your entry is a diorama designed around a single sniper in any scale or pose etc thats all that counts (just make it realistic)
penpen
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 09:08 AM UTC
That's great !
It's time to have your imagination unning !
slodder
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Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 10:32 AM UTC
First of all let me get the 'business' stuff out out the way - I LOVE the new imoticons!! Good job Jim

As far as the Dio Campaign goes - Can't get it out of my head. I went to my local Hungates and found out the Dragon makes a bunch of winter figures that would be GREAT! for this.
These kits were running under $10!
I've got mine! I'm ready to Go.