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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Distressed Wheels
Hellcat
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Barcelona, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: October 01, 2002
KitMaker: 22 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:12 AM UTC
I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on Verlindens or Custom Dioramics distressed road wheels for the M4? Do they look authentic or are they too much for an actual vehicle?
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on Verlindens or Custom Dioramics distressed road wheels for the M4? Do they look authentic or are they too much for an actual vehicle?



Buddy--I bought several sets. In my humble opinion, use a Dremel drill on the kit wheels and you'll get the same or better results.
DJ
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:21 AM UTC
Welcome aboard Hellcat! Great name by the way! I love those TD's!
I was looking at them myself not too long ago. I really haven't seen too many Shermans that have wheels all torn up like that. All my reference material does not show any pics of them like the ones from Verlinden nor CD.
Maybe someone else has another opinion on them. I guess they would look okay for a war-torn vehicle. One thats been around the block a few times.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Welcome aboard Hellcat! Great name by the way! I love those TD's!
I was looking at them myself not too long ago. I really haven't seen too many Shermans that have wheels all torn up like that. All my reference material does not show any pics of them like the ones from Verlinden nor CD.
Maybe someone else has another opinion on them. I guess they would look okay for a war-torn vehicle. One thats been around the block a few times.



Ken---generally speaking, we allow a 50% lose of rubber before we switch out a road wheel. They get pretty beaten up over time and on a given terrain. At Fort Bliss, in an arid desert, you will eat them up at an alarming rate while in Europe you can count on a more predictable rate of replacement. In WW II, I will bet they ripped up road wheels and track at a steady rate. So, to replicate distressed wheels on an M4 series, I chip a few chunks out of one or two wheels on a side. I try to avoid overdoing the roadwheels.
DJ
Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: April 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,290 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:37 AM UTC
I seem to recall that 50% separation of the rubber "tire" from the wheel (you stick a pocket knife or screwdriver blade between rubber and metal for 50% of circumference of wheel), We usually replace the roadwheel when rubber chunks alway down to metal were missing. I had used an exacto knife to chunk road wheels and the center guides can punch big holes when the wheels "ride the center guides" during sharp turns in deep loose soil or mud. Missing rubber makes it easier for the road wheels to walk off teh track, resulting in a thrown track or a broken track depending on terrain and track wear. Back in teh late 70's when repair parts money was tight we had some pretty poor looking road wheels.

Most pictures of Shermans only show minor to no damage to road wheels. They spent a lot of time on roads.
Delta42
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 27, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:54 AM UTC
In my 20yrs experience with Mech vehicles in the Army, I can remember some pretty worn road wheels. Most of the time the damage was so minor that it would not even show up in 1/35 scale. I'm guessing that it was the same for Shermans in WWII. We only changed out road wheels when there was major damage or when the minor damage equaled 50% or better. And believe me if a road wheel gets 50% or better damage to it, you can sure tell.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I seem to recall that 50% separation of the rubber "tire" from the wheel (you stick a pocket knife or screwdriver blade between rubber and metal for 50% of circumference of wheel), We usually replace the roadwheel when rubber chunks alway down to metal were missing. I had used an exacto knife to chunk road wheels and the center guides can punch big holes when the wheels "ride the center guides" during sharp turns in deep loose soil or mud. Missing rubber makes it easier for the road wheels to walk off teh track, resulting in a thrown track or a broken track depending on terrain and track wear. Back in teh late 70's when repair parts money was tight we had some pretty poor looking road wheels.

Most pictures of Shermans only show minor to no damage to road wheels. They spent a lot of time on roads.



Jeff--you are absolutely correct in your description. I am looking at the Osprey and Squadron books on Shermans and while slight they certaily have road wheel chunks missing. I am also assuming that Shermans were either road bound or knocked off before they suffered traumatic rubber separation.
DJ
herberta
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Canada
Joined: March 06, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 02:18 AM UTC
Having habitually dinged up the rubber on running gear for a while, I decided to look at my references a few weeks ago!

I looked at German and Allied armor in action, and saw little evidence for visible wear on rubber wheels. Unless the vehicle had burned, there was little to distinguish new from old wheels. And, in many cases you can see the original seam on the rubber tires. So don't sand too much! But be prepared for judges to think you screwed up!

I will no longer ding up the wheels unless I see some convincing photographic evidence. I'm sure the wheels are worn, but it just ain't visible in 1/35 scale!! Kind of like all the rust patches that don't show up in photos!

Cheers
Andy
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 02:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Having habitually dinged up the rubber on running gear for a while, I decided to look at my references a few weeks ago!

I looked at German and Allied armor in action, and saw little evidence for visible wear on rubber wheels. Unless the vehicle had burned, there was little to distinguish new from old wheels. And, in many cases you can see the original seam on the rubber tires. So don't sand too much! But be prepared for judges to think you screwed up!

I will no longer ding up the wheels unless I see some convincing photographic evidence. I'm sure the wheels are worn, but it just ain't visible in 1/35 scale!! Kind of like all the rust patches that don't show up in photos!

Cheers
Andy



Andy--I'll dig through my files to show you some operational roadwheel that do not look too good.
DJ
Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 04:29 AM UTC
Road wheels are not the only suspension parts that suffer rubber chuking. Tracks with rubber-coated shoes and/or grousers suffer much more chunking than the road wheels, especially American vehicle involved in fighting in North Africa. I use a very sharp exacto knofe to distress rubber rimmed road wheels and rubber coated track shoes. As 210CAV said - look at photos of your subject. You will see a lot more chunking on modern American equipment as it gets a lot more off-raod use than many WW2 US vehicles.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:59 AM UTC
Just remember, the position of the road wheel usually determines the type of wear. The last road wheel gets rattled by the guide teeth as the tank turns. This constant vibration usually causes the rubber surface to look like a jigsaw puzzle or like cracked earth. The first road wheel (front one) takes the greatest beating from traveling across the terrain (comes in contact with the terrain hardest). They tend to get chunked the most and lose the hunks of rubber. The other road wheels get chunked badly too, just not as often.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 01:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Just remember, the position of the road wheel usually determines the type of wear. The last road wheel gets rattled by the guide teeth as the tank turns. This constant vibration usually causes the rubber surface to look like a jigsaw puzzle or like cracked earth. The first road wheel (front one) takes the greatest beating from traveling across the terrain (comes in contact with the terrain hardest). They tend to get chunked the most and lose the hunks of rubber. The other road wheels get chunked badly too, just not as often.



Very nice!
DJ
Hellcat
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Barcelona, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: October 01, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 02:40 PM UTC
Thanks for the information on more modern road wheels but I wanted to use either verlinden or custom dioramics set for an M4. Anyone think these are too much?? Or are they ok?
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:43 PM UTC
I have a set of the Verlinden M4 roadwheels. Worth a few bucks IMHO. I'd grab a extra set if I saw one lying around at a good price. Roadwheel wear is the same for a WW2 rubber rimmed roadwheel as a modern rubber rimmed roadwheel.