login   |    register
Armor/AFV
For all ground-operating modelling subjects.
Please consider posting in the new forum
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 02:27 AM UTC
It would seem the problem here is one of cost - the current new system (with all its' objections) is free, whereas the system that would do what we ask carries a cost?

And yet I would point out, at the same time you now envision a server large enough to host ALL our many thousands of photographs. (I currently pay to host approximately 5000+ photos myself) I'm sure all this future storage space comes at a cost as well???

I would ask where was this gigantic server farm 18 months ago when we were all having so much trouble with photo hosting sites such as PhotoBucket?
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 05:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If this is what this place is coming to, I'm out.



Hi Patrick, please don't make a decision until you've tried it for a while. The whole trust levels thing is unlikely to affect most users, since I doubt there are many (other than staffers posting News) that feel the desire to create loads of new topics in a single session, or indeed post more than a handful of replies. And as they do, their rating goes up, so they probably won't ever notice the upper limits.

The levels are there, as Kurt pointed out, to stop web-crawling spam-bots from signing up as newbies and flooding all the forums with a ton of junk before anyone catches them.
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 07:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If this is what this place is coming to, I'm out.



Hi Patrick, please don't make a decision until you've tried it for a while. The whole trust levels thing is unlikely to affect most users, since I doubt there are many (other than staffers posting News) that feel the desire to create loads of new topics in a single session, or indeed post more than a handful of replies. And as they do, their rating goes up, so they probably won't ever notice the upper limits.

The levels are there, as Kurt pointed out, to stop web-crawling spam-bots from signing up as newbies and flooding all the forums with a ton of junk before anyone catches them.



I have tried Discourse on other sites. All I saw was ads and idiots. Not my cup of tea. it didn't dawn on me until I was ready to setup on the new forum that you went to Discourse. I got away from MySpace, stopped Facebooking when the number of ads out numbered the number of posts. And ad revenue is important but when it exceeds site or forum content I don't go there because its obvious that ads are the main reason that site exists, not its content.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 07:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If this is what this place is coming to, I'm out.



Hi Patrick, please don't make a decision until you've tried it for a while. The whole trust levels thing is unlikely to affect most users, since I doubt there are many (other than staffers posting News) that feel the desire to create loads of new topics in a single session, or indeed post more than a handful of replies. And as they do, their rating goes up, so they probably won't ever notice the upper limits.

The levels are there, as Kurt pointed out, to stop web-crawling spam-bots from signing up as newbies and flooding all the forums with a ton of junk before anyone catches them.



I have tried Discourse on other sites. All I saw was ads and idiots. Not my cup of tea. it didn't dawn on me until I was ready to setup on the new forum that you went to Discourse. I got away from MySpace, stopped Facebooking when the number of ads out numbered the number of posts. And ad revenue is important but when it exceeds site or forum content I don't go there because its obvious that ads are the main reason that site exists, not its content.




Well, if we are not paying for the services we can rest assured that we are part of the goods being sold.
I distinctly remember seeing ads top, left and right on the old forum as well.
No such thing as a free lunch you know.
I have more or less stopped seeing the ads, built in ad-blocker in my brain, but don't tell the advertisers
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 09:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have tried Discourse on other sites. All I saw was ads and idiots. Not my cup of tea. it didn't dawn on me until I was ready to setup on the new forum that you went to Discourse. I got away from MySpace, stopped Facebooking when the number of ads out numbered the number of posts. And ad revenue is important but when it exceeds site or forum content I don't go there because its obvious that ads are the main reason that site exists, not its content.



I understand about ads and social media in general - I never bothered with FaceAche or TwitsRus. But before you jump ship it's worth just having a good look around the new site - I don't think it's as bad as you're expecting. And as Robin said, we already have ads here, so if there are ads in the new site it's no big change.

As the saying goes, before you disagree with a man try walking a mile in his shoes. That way, if you still can't agree, at least you're a mile away - and you've got his shoes!
Chillidragon
Joined: September 20, 2012
KitMaker: 104 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 12:09 PM UTC
Well, now. I just looked over my recent posts to see if I needed to tie up any loose ends before everything is archived and I decide on whether or not to allow my membership to quietly lapse.

Where was my last post? Was it one of those removed by OP, I wonder?

To reiterate:
In answer to the question - again, no. Just no.

I already had some long-term threads running, and it appears that they will soon be terminated.


You have therefore decided the issue for me. tusen takk og farvel!

Remove it again if you will. I won't be back to check.
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
AeroScale: 3,756 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 12:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, now. I just looked over my recent posts to see if I needed to tie up any loose ends before everything is archived and I decide on whether or not to allow my membership to quietly lapse.

Where was my last post? Was it one of those removed by OP, I wonder?

To reiterate:
In answer to the question - again, no. Just no.

I already had some long-term threads running, and it appears that they will soon be terminated.


You have therefore decided the issue for me. tusen takk og farvel!

Remove it again if you will. I won't be back to check.



John, according to your profile you have made 104 posts over 8 years. That is less than 1 post per month on average. Why do you not consider it worth at least trying out the new site for a while to see that it isn't so bad?

I have quite a few long-term threads running, and I will simply post a link to the thread here in the opening post on the new site and continue on. Nothing will be "terminated" or lost.

Cheers, D
TankManNick
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: February 01, 2010
KitMaker: 551 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 03:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...please consider starting new threads in the new forums.



No.



Hmm. Complains about new forum but apparently incapable of finding own post 1 page back in the OLD forum...













Maybe a reply of just "No." doesn't actually qualify as a "forum post"?
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 06:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...please consider starting new threads in the new forums.



No.




That post is still here, at least on my screen

The only posts I remove are my own, those I do for testing purposes, sometimes I manage to post in the wrong thread or someone else already posted the exact same answer.
I also remove spammers and all their posts.
I can't remember if I have ever removed a post for being offensive, maybe I have sometime ...
I have locked a few threads that were going off the rails but the posts are still there if someone wants to read them and think about what they have written.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=search&sortby=&req=result&page=1&srchfid=all&srchuname=Chillidragon&srchterms=any&srchtxt=&srchin=both&totalposts=104
KurtLaughlin
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 11:31 PM UTC
Over the last 20 years I have seen a number of these "Hell no, I won't go!" posts as forums evolved and changed platforms. Almost without exception they were made by nobodies whose contributions to the sites would be lost merely by rounding percentages to two decimal places.

People who enjoy the communication and information sharing provided by forums aren't stopped by screens with different colored backgrounds or a reset of their post count.

KL
Bodeen
#026
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,744 posts
AeroScale: 14 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 02:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Robin, I think you are being too much of a typically polite Scandinavian. This thread needs to be re-titled "Hey meatheads! Use the new site - This one is closing down!"

KL



In the new forum I would have given your post a 'like'

Many have gotten the message so I don't need to be confrontational, yet ....



You don't need to be confrontational at all. You put the message out. Everyone who visits this site, even occasionally, knows we are going to new forums. If they don't adhere to the new rules it's their loss. There is no need to disparage someones skills, level of participation in the forums, or anything else. This is a modelers site. Just build it and they will come.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
AeroScale: 510 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2020 - 02:36 AM UTC
My apologies for not replying to all this earlier. As you can probably imagine with 5-6 sites to move over to the new content platforms I pretty busy these days. I have a longer pre-written out article to put up later, but for now I will only say this...

This site has been changing since day 1. The forum is not the forum we launched with. This is just a lot bigger change and quite frankly not an option. Building a new forum from scratch (which is what would have been required otherwise) was not an option. No site I am currently aware of with perhaps the exception of ScaleMates has it own personally coded discussion software other than this one. I realize for some people simple is best. Heck there are still sites that have essentially 1998 levels of forums (Steel Navy I am looking at you - https://members.boardhost.com/Warship/) and they never change. That's not going to be us I'm afraid. I chose Discourse because it's simple enough (to navigate and find topics) but complex enough to do the job right. It's NOT Facebook. Anyone who thinks that software is Facebook needs to look again. It's traditional forum all the way. There was an option I was considering that was like Facebook, but we didn't go down that road far.

I will try to get the email situation improved if I can. Sadly paying for a dedicated email IP is the only way to fix it on our current provider and that costs $90 a month to start. We may eventually need a plan that covers that many emails a month so that's why I have been waiting to see how many emails the forum is generating. Currently we are at a 88% delivered ratio so you can see most of our emails are going through. If you are in the 12% that aren't I am sorry for the trouble but I can only promise that Robin and our staff will help get you up and running if given time and a nudge. I will also mention that most of these email providers we are having issues with (hotmail, msn, mac.com, etc) are defunct providers. Meaning they no longer are accepting any new users and basically just want to hang on to you as customers for the marketing benefits. They really aren't interested in email delivery so trust me it's more than just our emails that are getting blocked from your inbox. Our server is not sending the email, SendGrid is and they are a huge provider for a lot of companies: https://sendgrid.com/customers/

Lastly I would say that this is still early days for this transition. Nothing is set in stone beyond the selection of the platforms so we will be making changes as the community provides more constructive input.

Thanks,
Jim
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 02:36 AM UTC
. . . . . . constructive input??????


I don't really care what you do with the forum - change is good - change is inevitable.

What I do care about is a change so great that all past information, all previous input and past creativity is made inaccessible or nearly so - that is what I care about.

How's that for constructive input?

p.s. I note that Jim's message failed to touch on this portion of the issue at all.


IMHO - This is simply a bridge too far and someone should have jerked Monty up by the short hairs way before things got this far!
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 03:00 AM UTC
IN the new forum apparently gone are the very readible color codings and distinctive icons that indicate what topic category each thread is assigned to. - NOT GOOD!

When viewing all categories at once (the preference of many) the color coding and large icons make navigation MUCH quicker and easier. (HUGELY QUICKER)

Right now we have to read and mentally interpret each thread title to determine our possible interest. (Then too you may recall that in the past we all sometimes seem to have difficulty creating new thread titles that are actually comprehensible and indicative of the topic.)

. . . . how's that for constructive?


p.s. Don't need the author's ugly mug in a microscopically small icon. I need a LARGE easy to find/see/read icon that indicates category.

Some of these tiny round miniature icons simply increase the computational time required by the software and offer nothing by way of help to the reader.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
AeroScale: 510 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 03:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

. . . . . . constructive input??????


I don't really care what you do with the forum - change is good - change is inevitable.

What I do care about is a change so great that all past information, all previous input and past creativity is made inaccessible or nearly so - that is what I care about.

How's that for constructive input?

p.s. I note that Jim's message failed to touch on this portion of the issue at all.


IMHO - This is simply a bridge too far and someone should have jerked Monty up by the short hairs way before things got this far!



You're ranting. Sorry you can't see that. And as for "all past information, all previous input and past creativity is made inaccessible or nearly so" I guess we will have to disagree. I think making permanent site archives of the old sites is a perfectly adequate solution to the problem at hand. You feel differently I guess. Your earlier statements reflect a serious lack of technical knowledge so I won't try to go into the details, but simply put... this is the best case scenario. The other scenario is to wait for the site to become un-hostable and be gone. Period. And that may have been in several months, not years.

Thanks though for your feedback. I knew I wasn't going to please everyone with this change, but based on my experience I never do.

Jim
Kenaicop
#384
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
AeroScale: 18 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 08:29 AM UTC
Hi Jim, only posting here to ask a question. Was just notified Kitmaker Network is no longer accepting my monthly payments. All this stuff confuses the hell out of me, can you shed some light on that. Thanks!
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
AeroScale: 510 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 09:42 AM UTC
Hi James,
Yes sorry about that. Sadly PayPal doesn't have a way to add some kind of explanation for those cancellations. I posted about it here though (in both forums).

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=288668
Kenaicop
#384
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
AeroScale: 18 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 09:59 AM UTC
Thanks Jim, Ill take a look
Vicious
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
AeroScale: 75 posts
Posted: Friday, October 30, 2020 - 10:05 AM UTC
I think maybe a post dedicated only to explaining that the old forum and its mountain of information will not be lost but archived and therefore accessible to all would not be bad, it seems that many users have not understood this
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 02:17 AM UTC
Jim - I differ - I am not ranting - I am reporting my one, primary, major, concern/complaint against the new system.


And on what you may view as a more "constructive" note: -- The round icons in the new forums ARE microscopy small, difficult to decipher and convey little or no meaning to the readier.

Even with my lack of technical knowledge (guilty) there has always been a disconnect between what the programmer thinks is important (is proud of) and what the reader/end user considers significant.

_____________________________


In my GPS mapping work experience I have found that usually by the time the programmer asks us to beta test their creation he/she has already gone much too far down the rabbit hole to then be willing/able to make the changes requested by the beta users.

In that I do have significant prior experience.

Hence the reference to "A Bridge Too Far".
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 02:29 AM UTC
Hey Jim,
Maybe you could consider reducing the size of the icons here in the old forums

I actually prefer the new layout which leaves more space for the content of the posts by reducing the size of the poster-info.
Side by side comparison (the ads on the side are intentionally hidden)


The selection of post on the right side managed to avoid catching any of the user signatures (Vicious doesn't show his, Mike's signature is outside of the screen capture).
Signatures "waste" even more space ...
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 02:53 AM UTC
Looks like I finally now know that I am actually Kit Maker Subscriber #521.

Gosh - not even in the top 100!

tres desolate
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2020 - 03:58 AM UTC
165thspc
#521
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 02:59 AM UTC
EUREKA, A RABBIT HOLE! (in more ways then one.)


This is either a photo of a cute, cuddly, probably VICIOUS, ground dwelling animal.

OR

a selfie taken in your bathroom mirror.
Maki
Staff MemberSenior Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 5,579 posts
AeroScale: 15 posts
Posted: Monday, November 02, 2020 - 03:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

EUREKA, A RABBIT HOLE! (in more ways then one.)


This is either a photo of a cute, cuddly, probably VICIOUS, ground dwelling animal.

OR

a selfie taken in your bathroom mirror.



Michael, you are going too far with this...

While I understand it could be difficult to get used to the new forums and new Kitmaker websites that will all soon be active, I think a bit of patience and open mind could be a good way to go.

As Jim specified several times, no content would be lost. I for one would be very much against that sort of thing, as I have published countless news stories, >350 reviews and number of feature articles on Armorama, Historicus Forma and Model Geek.

Mario