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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
MR. MODELLBAU?
ccordoba7141
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New York, United States
Joined: February 25, 2018
KitMaker: 26 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 04:46 PM UTC
Considering doing an M60 "Sabra" upgrade, but the only company that has a conversion is MR. MODELLBAU. Does anyone have experience or comments on the quality of this company?
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,309 posts
AeroScale: 19 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 06:51 PM UTC
My experience is that his resin casting isn't quite up to the same quality as others. Air bubbles and distortions occur so you need to be prepared for more work than what is needed for resin upgrade/conversion kits from other manufacturers.
If you really want it then go for it, I would wait and hope for someone else to make this conversion or a full kit.
/ Robin
Black_sheep
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 755 posts
AeroScale: 43 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 07:43 PM UTC
Hi, I do have a few different sets from them and I am satisfied with the quality of each one.

Cheers

Thomas
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2017
KitMaker: 83 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 08:36 PM UTC
No good experiences with MR conversions...I wouldn' t get it again..
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 3,989 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 08:52 PM UTC
First, it´s not MR. Modellbau, but MR Modellbau. Named after Matthias Roth. I concur with Reforger Victim, quality could be a hit and miss. I know Matthias for years and he usually does good research. He told me that he measured the SABRA on a Defense Show, so it must be good. But be aware, SABRA is not a IDF service vehicle, it was rather devolped for foreign M60 users.

http://panzerbaer.de/types/isr_kpz_m60a3_sabra-a.htm
GTDeath13
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Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 893 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 09:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Considering doing an M60 "Sabra" upgrade, but the only company that has a conversion is MR. MODELLBAU. Does anyone have experience or comments on the quality of this company?



Take in mind that if you are planning to do a Turkish "Sabra" you will need additional modifications depending on the time frame you choose. The MR Modellbau provides the parts to build the prototype not the version built for the Turkish army.
terminators
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France
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,890 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 10:26 PM UTC
I have 2 update sets for a Fuchs, wheels and driver compartment, parts are in a very good quality, but instructions are very nebulous, even incomprehensible !
54instw
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 04, 2006
KitMaker: 2 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 11:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have 2 update sets for a Fuchs, wheels and driver compartment, parts are in a very good quality, but instructions are very nebulous, even incomprehensible !

54instw
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 04, 2006
KitMaker: 2 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 12:01 AM UTC
I have had several items from MR Modellbau and would generally agree with the other respondents. Most items have been fine, the odd piece had some bubbles in the resin, the metal parts were not the best, and the service was excellent. Emails were answered promptly. The best piece I purchased was a Pzkfw II Luchs turret that I put on an old Italeri SdKfz 234 to make the field conversion seen in some photos at the end of WW2, all for 5 euro.
dmiles
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 17, 2008
KitMaker: 157 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 12:18 AM UTC
Purchased two kits from them one was so I could do an upgraded PNMK, the other was the Sabra and I found both to be of a very good standard and only minor air bubbles required filling, as mentioned the only real vehicle you can do is a Turkish M60 and there is a lot of work involved to bring it up to spec but well worth it, it was a long but enjoyable built.
Garrand
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 27, 2009
KitMaker: 185 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 03:06 AM UTC
I have purchased one set from MR: the Saladin upgrade set. I found the castings to be flawless, but the resin was very brittle. I shattered a few pieces trying to remove from the casting block. I think if he had used a softer resin, I would be completely satisfied.

Damon.
AKirchhoff
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Germany
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 298 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 03:43 AM UTC
Hi,
I know Matthias for nearly 40 years and bought a lot of times from him. His detailing is usually quite good, and the castings "can" be very good. I say "can", because sometimes, and mostly about 10-15 years ago, I sometimes got poor castings due to old and worn moulds. Within the last 10 or so years, everything that I bought had fine castings. So, nobody should be blamed for old "sins", when he improved things. Instructions are always not quite comprehensive. In my opinion, regarding all this, MR is not among the very top in the market, but the quality of his kits and the reliability of delivery is average or higher. You should consider that, due to Covid-19, dispatch to foreign countries sometimes slower or more expensive at the moment due to 98% of the passenger aircraft grounded in Europe or at least Germany so air cargo is very limited.

Andreas
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,397 posts
AeroScale: 118 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 04:15 AM UTC
Several years ago I bought the 1/48 Firefly turret conversion for Tamiya Sherman (this was before Tamiya's Firefly). Product was terrible with air bubbles, mis-casting, and resin leaks causing blobs on the surface. It wasn't worthwhile trying to save it - it was a total loss! I'm surprised it made through any kind of quality control!
jfeenstra
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 24, 2014
KitMaker: 320 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 05:06 AM UTC
I have numerous MR Modellbau conversions, detail sets, and accessories, some as new as the last 2 years, others purchased over 10 years ago.

All of them are well done, although as mentioned, perhaps not on par with some of the best like DES or Brach, but still quite good. Unlike others, I think the instructions are fine, a combination of text and drawings that are no worse then many resin kits.

Do note that the Sabra is one of the earlier kits, so the instructions and castings may not be as good as some of the later ones, but don't let that put you off. And considering how long the real Sabra has been around and MR is the only one that has done a conversion, I doubt you can expect to see another one anytime soon, although given its actual combat use by Turkey the last few years, I suppose anything is possible!

As for ordering online direct from the store, no problems there at all, my experiences have all been good. And as Hans said, its MR (for Matthias Roth)) not Mr.!
ccordoba7141
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New York, United States
Joined: February 25, 2018
KitMaker: 26 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2020 - 02:38 PM UTC
I thank all for their input and comments regarding the quality of MR Modellbau. I'll take all of these into consideration regarding my decision on purchasing. I'll also have to to consider whether or not I'll be able to make a Sabra Mk. 2 (M60T) with this conversion.
martinello
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Wojewodztwo Dolnoslaskie, Poland
Joined: March 20, 2018
KitMaker: 24 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 06:12 PM UTC
Hello
My Sabra set is not very sophisticated and requires a bit of work on supplementing the casting defects. Some parts are crooked - so this is not a "buy and paste" set.
The drive wheels and transmission covers for the Israeli version are not included (please purchase separately). If you want to make a Turkish version, I don't know what the drive wheel should be.
terminators
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France
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,890 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 12:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I have had several items from MR Modellbau and would generally agree with the other respondents. Most items have been fine, the odd piece had some bubbles in the resin, the metal parts were not the best, and the service was excellent. Emails were answered promptly. The best piece I purchased was a Pzkfw II Luchs turret that I put on an old Italeri SdKfz 234 to make the field conversion seen in some photos at the end of WW2, all for 5 euro.



Metal material is indeed not the best way to make a good built. Hard to glue, not very well molded. I Have used MR Modellbau metal turret on a MAN truck and an UNIMOG U1300L.
HermannB
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Bayern, Germany
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 3,989 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 03:43 AM UTC
Biggest problem building a M60T will be tracks. Turkish Army uses a Diehl type live track.
Removed by original poster on 04/29/20 - 16:19:20 (GMT).