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Armor/AFV: Techniques
From Weathering to making tent rolls, discuss it here.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Why don't we....
panzerbob01
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Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 02:21 AM UTC
And then there are old modelers like myself who only apply gloss (usually in the form of Future) to very small areas of otherwise satin (acrylic mattes mixed with Future!) or matte surfaces to mount decals on and in... And I very seldom use decals for other then small and specific labels, etc., so...

Oil-based enamel paints are originally glossy, owing to their vehicles, and get stuff added to make them matte or flat... Acryls and the like are, in contrast, inherently flat or matte and need stuff added to make them glossier. Acryl vehicles consist mostly of water and alcohols - both of which evaporate without residue. Non-evaporative additives to the acryl vehicles provide the bonding which holds the pigments in the dried paint layer. Oil vehicles are mixes of drying oils and organic solvents. The solvents (xylene, toluene, acetone, etc.) evaporate without leaving residues, but the drying oils have distinct residues which "dry" to form waxy surfaces that bond pigments in the finish layer. So, if you like using less-toxic acryls and want the colors offered in those types but not available in glossier oil / enamel / lacquer lines... You'll get mostly matte and flat paints and need to add the glossy layer if that's important to your finishing process.

When I started modeling almost 60 years ago, there were few paint options and most were more glossy then not enamels. When nice matte and flat types became more available, I happily pounced on those and never looked back!

In my case, I came to generally use spray-painted "base" weathering coats, followed by application of carefully-worked washes, chalks, charcoals, and pigments and mud mixes to get the dirt and dust weathering I want. I've never needed to make my tanks or trucks glossy!

It surely comes down to one's habits, techniques, and experiences as much as anything - some like one approach, some another. I think that the plethora of acryl and related paints in matte and flat finishes reflects manufacturers recognizing that lots of modelers either genuinely like those materials or are at least confident in using them - maybe out of habit.

Just my take, of course!

Bob
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 08:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So why do we even bother with flats? Sure for touchups and whatnot but perhaps we should just shoot gloss.



I think that's partially because most of the paints modelers use for painting AFVs are only available in matt. Just look at Tamiya's matt paints range vs. its glossy one.

guni-kid
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 07:40 PM UTC
That's true, it totally depends on the composition. Take Ammo, AK, or Vallejo as examples, where the flat paints do in fact have this "eggshell-sheen" to them in contrast to being dead flat like for example the AK REAL COLORS or many Tamiya flat paints.

And then the gloss coat is often not solely to have it glossy but to have firstly an even and smooth finish as a base for the stuff to follow. When spraying different colors like with camos you end up having those "breaks" between colors and layers, which is not an even, uninterrupted finish.
Secondly, those gloss coats also more often than not have the purpose to seal everything off for the weathering that follows in order not to damage the underlying paint job. In fact, varnishes do very often have a different chemical composition to paints in order to fit this purpose aka trying to give the whole paintjob a bulletproof seal.

That is in my opinion why we should always consider what we want to achieve and in which order so. And then there is no single "yes" or "no"; sometimes it would do ok just using glossy paints, sometimes it would just not be enough...
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 07:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Well to me Matte paint flows better through airbrush and levels much better.



Which in itself is strange because Matte is a gloss with an additive (talc or chalk perhaps?)



Different solutions for different brands of paint.
Tamiya have a "matting agent" which the user needs to mix with the gloss clear to get a matte surface.

In the case of Humbrol the matte and gloss are probably additives to a base paint. The gloss has a "sirupy" feel to it which the matte does not have. If the matte was gloss + some powder the "sirupy" feel would still be there.
/ Robin
11Bravo_C2
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 06:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well to me Matte paint flows better through airbrush and levels much better.



Which in itself is strange because Matte is a gloss with an additive (talc or chalk perhaps?)
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 06:01 PM UTC
I find it easier to spray matt/flat/dull than gloss but maybe it depends on which brand/type of paint is being used. The stuff that makes the paint gloss also makes it "thick" somehow.
/ Robin
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 06:01 PM UTC
Well to me Matte paint flows better through airbrush and levels much better.
mudlark
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 05:03 PM UTC
Some people don't follow current fashions and start the weathering process before the clear coat and it's not always a gloss clear. It would depend on what's being modelled, if decals are used and the finish you are trying to get.
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 04:51 PM UTC
Looking at post after post after post about painting and weathering AFVs and aircraft why do we even bother with flat or matte paints?

What's the first step of weathering? Putting down a smooth layer of gloss. This has now become the first step in weathering of all types, planes, trains, tanks, ships.

So why bother with flat paints? Lets just cut a out a step in the process and shoot base colors and cammo's in gloss.

Everyone seems to have issues with the laying down of a gloss layer. Using the new acrylic matte and gloss coats seems to be a bit difficult. And Future/Plegde/or whatever it is called now, causing confusion with the various types and names around the globe just adds another layer of stress. One man's Pledge was another man's Future. I still use Testors Glosscote and Dullcote as the final layer because they're lacquers, premixed and simple. I used to use Glosscote for decal and weathering but I mostly use Future/Pledge/whatever now.

So why do we even bother with flats? Sure for touchups and whatnot but perhaps we should just shoot gloss.