login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Techniques
From Weathering to making tent rolls, discuss it here.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Why don't we....
PanzerKarl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
AeroScale: 35 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 06:21 AM UTC
The way I have painted my tanks is use flat paint like model air,after that I use a paint brush and paint a gloss varnish only where the decals go,I then semi-gloss the whole vehicle ready for weathering and after that I lay down a matte varnish to seal everything in.
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
AeroScale: 1,198 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2020 - 05:34 AM UTC
I don't put down a layer of gloss. But matte finishes are not just about the gloss/flat coat above them. Truly scale flat paints should LOOK sun-bleached and EXTREMELY flat.
vettejack
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 11:00 PM UTC
In 50 years of "modern" modeling, anything gloss has never seen armor I've built. Like others, the supplies then were way different than they are now (which is a good thing). Decals always seem to be just fine settling on the rough texture of the matte paint...sometimes using Solvaset to maybe put down a corner or two. Knowing PE needs to be primed, I then starting using primers way back when as well.

Staying with what works for me, Testor's Dullcote was, and still is, my maintaining a uniform "sealing' coat once the main portion of painting is done. Then worry free detailing, washing, takes place. Not that I'm an expert in painting by any means, its that I just found what works for me, and have stayed with it all these decades.

Grab handles and lift rings are always done with brass and/or steel rod. Just another area where it provides better security for not breaking parts off, and you can tell the difference between metal and plastic.

Headlight shells were always painted silver, then the bulb was done with 2 part epoxy. Sometimes I even 'broke' a bulb, and left a wire or two hanging out.

All in all, once I've done my painting/preps, weathering is an easier chore. No gloss ever needed.
cabasner
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Nevada, United States
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
AeroScale: 25 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 - 08:41 AM UTC
I think the original poster had a really good point...except that, like many of you, my feeling, while not verified by actual experiment, is that gloss paints SEEM to have a thicker consistency, which would SEEM detrimental to retaining delicate detail on plastic parts. Frankly, I feel better spraying flat, and covering with a gloss coat if necessary. It's probably just a perception, but it's one that definitely is one that I have.

Since I've just begun using Mission Models paints, and their claim is that their poly additive creates an eggshell type finish in their paints, this may be an adequate finish for decals and weathering that requires something other than a matte finish. i don't know for sure, but it's a thought.
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 06:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm going to shoot nail polish for an intense color and depth.
Been wanting to try that for years just didn't have a kit to try it on.



Be careful! I did this on a kit and it dissolved all the glue so the model fell apart. Nail polish is harsh! (At least the cheap stuff.)



If you use CA glue, Acetone dissolves it! We keep a bottle of nail polish in case we find ourselves glued to something.



That's why people who do shoot nail polish lay down a good primer coat. I've used clear nail polish on car head lights after putting down silver and sealing it with Glosscote really made the headlights jump out but that was just a tiny amount of polish.
GaryKato
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: December 06, 2004
KitMaker: 3,694 posts
AeroScale: 163 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 05:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm going to shoot nail polish for an intense color and depth.
Been wanting to try that for years just didn't have a kit to try it on.



Be careful! I did this on a kit and it dissolved all the glue so the model fell apart. Nail polish is harsh! (At least the cheap stuff.)



If you use CA glue, Acetone dissolves it! We keep a bottle of nail polish in case we find ourselves glued to something.
Tojo72
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,688 posts
AeroScale: 238 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 04:53 AM UTC
I find it easier to spray matte paint myself,adding the clear gloss hasn't presented a problem,I generally use Alclad Aqua Gloss,Testors Lacquer,or Vallejo.
KurtLaughlin
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 02:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well if you want to hide all that nice fine detail like rivets and bolts then gloss away



I don't have that problem, at all. I guess I've been doing it long enough that I've learned how to apply paints properly.

KL


ropeynz
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 15, 2011
KitMaker: 134 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 - 01:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm going to shoot nail polish for an intense color and depth.
Been wanting to try that for years just didn't have a kit to try it on.



Be careful! I did this on a kit and it dissolved all the glue so the model fell apart. Nail polish is harsh! (At least the cheap stuff.)
Neo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 916 posts
AeroScale: 22 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 03:17 AM UTC
Delta Ceramiccoat (Craft Acrylic)
Dead (DEAD) Flat

Lots of colors, good availability at most local Craft Stores.
And cheap too (a big plus for ppl. like me on very limited budget) usually about 1 USD.
V2Phantom
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United States
Joined: December 26, 2008
KitMaker: 288 posts
AeroScale: 195 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2020 - 02:17 AM UTC
Tom

There is at least one US based source for Xtracolour enamels. The company is Kitlinx based out of Utah. I placed a good size order with them about 3 weeks ago and received my order in about a week. A lot of the useful colors that I needed were sold out but I received an email announcement from them that they were placing another large order from Hannants and you could preorder the colors that they are currently missing.
Have fun modeling
Mike




Quoted Text

My go to is Xtracolour enamels. All gloss you have to flat them.
Best enamel on the market in my opinion. Sure wish we could get them here again.

steel_tiger1
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Iowa, United States
Joined: May 14, 2008
KitMaker: 34 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 08:21 AM UTC
I think I still have a bottle somewhere of the Scale Black from pactra. will have to look.
steel_tiger1
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Iowa, United States
Joined: May 14, 2008
KitMaker: 34 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 08:19 AM UTC
Last time I checked the Royal mail wouldn't accept them to be shipped to the US. I could find some here and there, but other than Hannetts they don't seem to be available. And the Royal mail info was from Hannetts. So I don't know.
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
AeroScale: 101 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 07:32 AM UTC
My favorite color ever was Pactra scale black. Absolutely dead flat black, and yes it was scale black - actually a very dark grey.
My friend and I used to trade the colors from the set that it came from back and forth. This was in the mid seventies.
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 07:19 AM UTC
Decades ago it was Testors, Pactra, PollyS and Humbrol the only paints we could get up here. I used enamels and laquers so long that it was second nature to thin them correctly for shooting or washes. In fact that was one reason you used Dullcote and Glosscote. It kept your washes from lifting, softening or eating your base color. Pactra was my favorite line of paints. Their flats were truly flat and the had a lot of colors. Testors flat black was a semi gloss while Pactra had the flatest black available. You could even mix the brands on occasion. You had to test of course but sometimes you could mix Pactra and Testors. That stopped in the early 80's tho.
PanzerKarl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
AeroScale: 35 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My go to is Xtracolour enamels. All gloss you have to flat them.
Best enamel on the market in my opinion. Sure wish we could get them here again.



Hannants are still sending items to other countries
steel_tiger1
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Iowa, United States
Joined: May 14, 2008
KitMaker: 34 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 06:33 AM UTC
My go to is Xtracolour enamels. All gloss you have to flat them.
Best enamel on the market in my opinion. Sure wish we could get them here again.
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 06:10 AM UTC
40 plus years ago when I started it was rattlecan glosses, which were pretty well thinned, for spraying. You had to use thin layers and I usually shot them over gloss white to make the colors pop. When I started doing armor it was flat Testors rattlecans and brushwork until I got an airbrush. The old drybrush and wash technique worked on flat paints quite well.

I've got one kit in the queue that is going to need gloss paint and I'm going to do something I've always wanted to try. I'm going to shoot nail polish for an intense color and depth.
Been wanting to try that for years just didn't have a kit to try it on.

But it's been an interesting read on people's opinions regarding this.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 05:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well if you want to hide all that nice fine detail like rivets and bolts then gloss away



Is that were the expression 'to gloss it over' comes from??
PanzerKarl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
AeroScale: 35 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 05:17 AM UTC
Well if you want to hide all that nice fine detail like rivets and bolts then gloss away
KurtLaughlin
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 05:10 AM UTC
I've thought it might be handy to have gloss camouflage colors but it would not be a meaningful benefit to me. I see an advantage of having a barrier coat of a single medium over colors because the color paints might be acrylic or enamel (i.e "water based" and "petroleum based"), from different brands, and "brushable" and "sprayable" formulations, so even if all my colors were gloss I would still use a clear barrier coat before weathering.

I also don't have any of those issues or "stress" you mention in using or buying clear coats so there's nothing to saved by me in that regard.

KL
Biggles2
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
AeroScale: 121 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 03:28 AM UTC
I find gloss paint usually runs off raised detail and pools in recesses. Takes more coats for even coverage.
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
AeroScale: 101 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 03:14 AM UTC
They were existing markings painted out. Their commander was very security conscious. Odd, given they rarely left the COP. One of the few times one of the Abrams did attempt to leave, they rolled it.



By the way, Humbrol Khaki Drill #72 is a near perfect match for that color.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,977 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 02:58 AM UTC
Intriguing pics there Robert - were they existing markings painted out for security reasons, or is that a base coat in prep for new markings?
18Bravo
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
AeroScale: 101 posts
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2020 - 02:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And then there are old modelers like myself who only apply gloss (usually in the form of Future) to very small areas of otherwise satin (acrylic mattes mixed with Future!) or matte surfaces to mount decals on and in... )



Exactly. Most of my moderns builds are done this way - HMMWV's, RG's, Cougars - all require minimal decals. A little spot of Future here or there is a lot quicker than busting out the airbrush. Or if I decide to use dry transfers, then obviously no prep is involved.
Then there's a whole troop of Armor at my COP in Iraq needing nothing at all. Curiously MENG even included decals like this in the M2A3 Bradley kit - just irregular tan shapes to replicate what you could do with paint.