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Lada_Niva
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Drenthe, Netherlands
Joined: October 06, 2019
KitMaker: 177 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - 06:22 AM UTC
I can read a lot of reply. Some of them I find relevant to my question. Others don't. Didn't knew that my post would so many replys. And so many different replys. Well, I guess that everyone has a different opinion on this subject. And I really expected that a support member or staff member would reply to this. But it seems that I'm mistaken. Anyway, have a great day. Lada_Niva
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
AeroScale: 290 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - 06:34 AM UTC
There is nothing we can say as we have no control over this aspect of the network.
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - 10:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

There is nothing we can say as we have no control over this aspect of the network.



Quite worrying actually. Staff without control, and those with control (at least I hope that those exist) don't answer the question.

This really does not sound very good!
Maki
Staff MemberSenior Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 5,578 posts
AeroScale: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - 11:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Quite worrying actually. Staff without control, and those with control (at least I hope that those exist) don't answer the question.



Armorama staff doesn't get paid for the work performed on this site. The time we spend on the site editing, moderating and publishing content, as well as behind the scenes, is our free time... often quenched by family obligations, house chores and sometimes even "real" work.

My personal opinion is the app is not a priority of Kitmaker network. There are far more pressing issues to deal with... gallery comes to mind. Besides, I'm often visiting Armorama using my mobile phone and I never encountered many problems there.

Mario
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Quite worrying actually. Staff without control, and those with control (at least I hope that those exist) don't answer the question.



Armorama staff doesn't get paid for the work performed on this site. The time we spend on the site editing, moderating and publishing content, as well as behind the scenes, is our free time... often quenched by family obligations, house chores and sometimes even "real" work.



I know, and users should be and are greatful for the effort you put in but this has little to do with the fact that those who know do not respond to a valid question.


Quoted Text



My personal opinion is the app is not a priority of Kitmaker network. There are far more pressing issues to deal with... gallery comes to mind. Besides, I'm often visiting Armorama using my mobile phone and I never encountered many problems there.

Mario



Again, I agree, the list of things to improve is quite large, but again, this only emphasises that the network seems to have an issue which is alrger than an app.
Lada_Niva
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Drenthe, Netherlands
Joined: October 06, 2019
KitMaker: 177 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 02:49 AM UTC
Interesting to read these comments. One question I have then is. If you never update the website. If you don't do you maintenance. Or any other thing to keep this site/forum in good running condition. How are you suppose to fix issues and help users out? How can you guarentee safety of for example user information?
Think these are some important questions to answer in my opinion.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,564 posts
AeroScale: 509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 04:35 AM UTC
I would love for the site to support a full mobile version of the site's content. But sadly there are a LOT of projects like this on the back burners and as others have pointed out, I am just one 54 year old dude, not an army of programmers like Facebook has.

I mean seriously... there are still sites out there that are HTML static pages and they are still well used (yes I am looking at you Hyperscale). So yes this site is showing it's age. It's like 10, compared to their 20+.

Seriously though I am on the lookout for some kind of new out-of-the-box solution, but it's not going to have all the current functionality the site has now (dated though it is).

And yes... Facebook is evil. A necessary evil these days, but evil all the same.

Jim
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 05:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Interesting to read these comments. One question I have then is. If you never update the website. If you don't do you maintenance. Or any other thing to keep this site/forum in good running condition. How are you suppose to fix issues and help users out? How can you guarentee safety of for example user information?
Think these are some important questions to answer in my opinion.



Do you have any idea what most android apps do? They gather your information, sell it, use it to target you with ads. They watch what you search for, your YouTube history is monitored, everything you google is kept. When you say 'hey google' everything you say is recorded and kept. What many people don't under stand is that apps will say they need access to your microphone. WHAT FOR??!! You phone could be recording everything you say and you wouldn't know it, it can be using your camera and you wouldn't know it, stealing those 'private' pictures and uploading them to sleazy sites. It could be stealing your passwords. Android does all these things because people are either too stupid to believe this happens or they don't think it will happen to them. But it does. Android/Google does it, Apple does it, Microsoft does it, so do thousands of unscrupulous app writers.

All kitmaker does is ask you to donate if you want a ad free experience or if you don't then don't use an adblocker because that's how they make money and click on a few adds to keep this sight up. The don't ask for pages and pages of personal info and you can lie if you want.

This is a free site manned by unpaid people and if you have skills volunteer to help redesign the site with out destroying it's functionality as a database of builds, reviews, tips and trick to pass on to other modelers that can be easily accessed.

As I've said this is a free site with unpaid staff running it, it is also one of the most complete sites for ALL types of modelling.

Your data and personal info are probably safer here than any where else because they don't ask for much. But again it's a free site and if you feel uncomfortable with them not selling your info you are free to delete your account and leave, no one is gonna beg you to stay.
brekinapez
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
AeroScale: 158 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 07:46 AM UTC
Anyone who believes they are safe on anything that can connect to the internet, is fooling themselves horribly.

Even the hackers get hacked; internet security is an endless circle of one-upmanship.
Maki
Staff MemberSenior Editor
ARMORAMA
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 5,578 posts
AeroScale: 15 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 08:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I know, and users should be and are greatful for the effort you put in but this has little to do with the fact that those who know do not respond to a valid question

Again, I agree, the list of things to improve is quite large, but again, this only emphasises that the network seems to have an issue which is alrger than an app.



Indeed you are correct. Sorry for the short tempered response. I do wish for changes and upgrades to the site, but you have to understand the website is actually a one-man-band with regard to the coding and stuff. Sometimes things pass under a radar, sometimes it just takes a lot of time.

However, things like this entire paragraph:
‘If you never update the website. If you don't do you maintenance. Or any other thing to keep this site/forum in good running condition. How are you suppose to fix issues and help users out? How can you guarentee safety of for example user information?’
From a member who just recently joined the network shows a lack of respect for all the work on this site in my opinion.

Mario
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - 10:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry for the short tempered response.



I did not read anything short tempered.


Quoted Text


You have to understand the website is actually a one-man-band with regard to the coding and stuff.



I do know that, quite impressive but apparently not sustainable. At times when I had free time on my hands I offered to help but this was not accepted.


Quoted Text



However, things like this entire paragraph:
‘If you never update the website. If you don't do you maintenance. Or any other thing to keep this site/forum in good running condition. How are you suppose to fix issues and help users out? How can you guarentee safety of for example user information?’
From a member who just recently joined the network shows a lack of respect for all the work on this site in my opinion.



Now this is probably a bit short tempered

I would not take the comment that badly. It is a valid point, maybe not formulated all too diplomatic, but still valid.

I must admit (have done it before) that I sometimes get really cranky experiencing bugs that are 10 years old and I am afraid that finding a new shinny "out-of-the-box" solution will not be available or it will be at high cost.

In addition, most of us are happy here, don't we?

It may be foolish to just throw it all away in favour of something unknown; this may break it completely.

I would recommend another approach:
- document the site and how it works
- describe the architecture of the site
- make a complete bug list
- ask the users what annoys them most, prioritise

then tackle the issues in an organised way, write new services using the newest technologies …
It would take a few years probably but when users see improvements, they will love it.

Oeps, I am preaching again and I promised myself not to do that anymore.
Lada_Niva
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Drenthe, Netherlands
Joined: October 06, 2019
KitMaker: 177 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 03:04 AM UTC
I already know what third parties are doing with their apps and services. Once I was heavily privacy focussed. Using only privacy friendly products and services for the computer. But reality is, if you are liking it or not. You will give up some information when you are connected to the internet. And if you want to use services or other 'free' alternatives. You must give them the necessary information, because otherwise you can't use their services. Other replies I found a bit rude and disappointing if you ask me. I had expected that the staff is kind and wanting to help out. But it doesn't feel like that. If you ask me, I'm feeling like a noumber or 'a user'. Instead of someone they care about. I do or did like this forum. Because it is the most active place for scalemodelling I know. And I got nice replys to my questions or other things. And now this.
staff_Jim
Staff MemberPublisher
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Hampshire, United States
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,564 posts
AeroScale: 509 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 04:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I do or did like this forum. Because it is the most active place for scalemodelling I know. And I got nice replys to my questions or other things. And now this.



Lada_Niva,

I am sorry you have this feeling. I somehow doubt the staff of a larger corporate based 'app' are going to make you feel less like a number. They won't even recognize that you exist with some of them.

You have said some things in this post that seem poorly worded. I would not normally ask this of someone from the Netherlands, but perhaps we are just having a bit of a language barrier here? For example you said "If you never update the website. If you don't do you maintenance. Or any other thing to keep this site/forum in good running condition." You might have been directing that at me, but my staff DO update the 'website' on a daily basis. And the DO monitor the forums to keep them in good running condition. So you can perhaps see why some of them are responding in a more defensive manner. And I also DO update the website. If I didn't it wouldn't be still running for almost 18 years now.

There is, after all, a big difference between 'code' and 'content'.

Are you a programmer or developer?

Thanks,
Jim
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And now this.



Hai LAda_Niva,

This is a very useful discussion. You raised an important point (at least from my point of view) and it sparked an interesting discussion allowing people to express what is on their mind.

Hence, you should not be disapointed by how this tread has evolved, or end up with bad feelings, on the contrary.

Staff_Jim is right saying that there is a difference between "content" and "code".

And yes, the content is daily managed by a very dedicated group of voluntary staff. without them: no site. And believe me, their job isn't peanuts, it requires time and dedication, also at times when they may feel "under attack" from us, the mighty users :-).

However, I also think that it is valid to state that the "code" part of the site is a bit neglected, or is falling behind. Largely, because coding is very time consuming and evolutive maintenance is nearly impossible when the site/software architecture is not well defined.

I think staff_jim (assuming he is the programmer) has done an excellent job doing all the technical work, searching and managing a corps of volunteer staff, an contributing where possible.

Unfortunately, he is not superman, and it shows that he can't keep up with all the technical work. I may be too blunt, but this may at some point come at a very hard price for the site.

As conclusion, please keep the spirit up, its worth it, and for some that are well placed to do so; this site is worth defending, please reflect on how to bring it technically back to the same high level the community and content management is on.

Sh! , I am doing it again
Lada_Niva
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Drenthe, Netherlands
Joined: October 06, 2019
KitMaker: 177 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 04:48 AM UTC
Hello Jim,

I didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. But now I hope to understand a bit better.
Yes it is true that I don't speak the English language flowing. And I do sometimes struggle to find the right words to describe what I mean. But I'm doing the best I can. And if that isn't enough or I'm triggering answers that I don't like or that feel offensive to me.
Then it is best maybe better to find a Dutch forum or a forum with more room for mistakes. And where there are less people that are replying in a way that discourages me.

Lada_Niva
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 10:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Jim,

I didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. But now I hope to understand a bit better.
Yes it is true that I don't speak the English language flowing. And I do sometimes struggle to find the right words to describe what I mean. But I'm doing the best I can. And if that isn't enough or I'm triggering answers that I don't like or that feel offensive to me.
Then it is best maybe better to find a Dutch forum or a forum with more room for mistakes. And where there are less people that are replying in a way that discourages me.

Lada_Niva



Don't go away, we want to see you succeed with your airbrush and develop your painting skills.
By using your English often and occasionally getting it corrected your English will improve.
My Dutch is useless .....
/ Robin
Scarred
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,791 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 12:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello Jim,

I didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. But now I hope to understand a bit better.
Yes it is true that I don't speak the English language flowing. And I do sometimes struggle to find the right words to describe what I mean. But I'm doing the best I can. And if that isn't enough or I'm triggering answers that I don't like or that feel offensive to me.
Then it is best maybe better to find a Dutch forum or a forum with more room for mistakes. And where there are less people that are replying in a way that discourages me.

Lada_Niva



Don't go away, we want to see you succeed with your airbrush and develop your painting skills.
By using your English often and occasionally getting it corrected your English will improve.
My Dutch is useless .....
/ Robin



I don't like to see anyone go. We have people from all over the world here and the members work around language issues all the time. But you have to accept that a resource site like this can't conform to social media site designs because it's NOT a social media site. It's a library full of builds old and new, articles, reviews, tips and techniques and full of weird people who enjoy gluing plastic bits together who will give up their knowledge if asked. Or not asked. A social network site doesn't care about the past, just the new and now. It's like the magazine rack at my barbershop, last months magazines are gone, replaced with this months magazines and I wasn't done reading the old ones. If it's a few weeks old you can't find anything about it because it isn't relevant anymore. It's very common for someone to post on a topic that was has been quiet for a long time. There is a lot of info here you just gotta dig around and find it or post a question and it may take some time but eventually someone will remember it was a subject post some time ago and will point you in the right direction.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,687 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 08:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

..... Or not asked....



drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 10:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Jim,

I didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. But now I hope to understand a bit better.
Yes it is true that I don't speak the English language flowing. And I do sometimes struggle to find the right words to describe what I mean. But I'm doing the best I can. And if that isn't enough or I'm triggering answers that I don't like or that feel offensive to me.
Then it is best maybe better to find a Dutch forum or a forum with more room for mistakes. And where there are less people that are replying in a way that discourages me.

Lada_Niva



Mijn excuses, maar dat zou nu echt de verkeerde reactive zijn. Dit network bestaat hoofdzakelijk uit mensen die het heel goed menen. Misschien zijn ze niet altijd even diplomatisch of durven ze expliciet zeggen dat ze met iets niet akkoord zijn, maar dat is veeleer een zegen dan een vloek.

Ik kan je ervan verzekeren dat het er op sommige nederlandstalige fora veel harder aan toe gaat, waar het soms echt de bedoleing is om te kwetsen.

Blijf, en je zal hier heel veel leren, en enkele heel goede lange afstandsvrienden maken.

Really, when it comes to forum, and advice, and politely correcting errors; this site here beats all competition.

Now let them all learn some dutch trying to decipher the above :-)
justsendit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
AeroScale: 60 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 03:58 AM UTC
Welkom op de forums!

Proost!🍺
—mike
Lada_Niva
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Drenthe, Netherlands
Joined: October 06, 2019
KitMaker: 177 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 04:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello Jim,

I didn't really know what was going on behind the scenes. But now I hope to understand a bit better.
Yes it is true that I don't speak the English language flowing. And I do sometimes struggle to find the right words to describe what I mean. But I'm doing the best I can. And if that isn't enough or I'm triggering answers that I don't like or that feel offensive to me.
Then it is best maybe better to find a Dutch forum or a forum with more room for mistakes. And where there are less people that are replying in a way that discourages me.

Lada_Niva



Mijn excuses, maar dat zou nu echt de verkeerde reactive zijn. Dit network bestaat hoofdzakelijk uit mensen die het heel goed menen. Misschien zijn ze niet altijd even diplomatisch of durven ze expliciet zeggen dat ze met iets niet akkoord zijn, maar dat is veeleer een zegen dan een vloek.

Ik kan je ervan verzekeren dat het er op sommige nederlandstalige fora veel harder aan toe gaat, waar het soms echt de bedoleing is om te kwetsen.

Blijf, en je zal hier heel veel leren, en enkele heel goede lange afstandsvrienden maken.

Really, when it comes to forum, and advice, and politely correcting errors; this site here beats all competition.

Now let them all learn some dutch trying to decipher the above :-)



Thank you for your reply. And I appreciate it that you have used Google Translate? For the message you put in my own language. That gives me the feeling at least you are carring about a member that wasn't feeling so happy anymore on this forum. Or did you have some knowledge of the Dutch language? That would even more appreciated. Thanks again for your reply and your Dutch commentary. Nog een hele fijne dag toegewenst en bedankt voor je antwoord, Lada_Niva. Nederlands.
justsendit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
AeroScale: 60 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 07:17 AM UTC
Your first guess was correct, it was Google Translate all along. And now in my language: Happy Modeling!

Cheers!🍺
—mike
MSGsummit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: November 16, 2002
KitMaker: 751 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 09:24 AM UTC
Wow! Its hard to believe I have been a member of this site for 17 years! That said, yeah the site is a little old, and the gallery has always been a bit of an issue but I find this site to be comforting in alot of ways because it hasn't really changed. This IS the best modelling site by far in my opinion. Thanks to you Jim! If this site were to ever shut down.....well, it will be a sad day for the modelling community. No other site is as welcoming and diverse.
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 09:24 AM UTC
I am flemish, een west vlaming met andere woorden, and we all precies end speaking dutch here
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2019 - 09:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow! Its hard to believe I have been a member of this site for 17 years! That said, yeah the site is a little old, and the gallery has always been a bit of an issue but I find this site to be comforting in alot of ways because it hasn't really changed. This IS the best modelling site by far in my opinion. Thanks to you Jim! If this site were to ever shut down.....well, it will be a sad day for the modelling community. No other site is as welcoming and diverse.



Fully agree and your comment supports the need to update technology. One day, an as...ole will exploit a weakness at it will hurt.