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Campaign Proposal: Also Rans
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,496 posts
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 09:20 PM UTC
Lots of hope and sweat goes into the development of new aircraft. But they donít always live up to the hopes. Whether in competition against similar designs for domestic or international contracts, the rigors of wartime operations or in combat these planes came out second best, Also Rans.
My goal here is to feature lesser known aircraft that didnít make the cut. They either lost out in competitions for production contracts or did receive a production order but the plane didnít pan out in operation. Weíre fortunate that mold makers rush models of the competitors before the competition is completed.
These can be finished as they were for the flyoffs, as they actually served, or what if looks if theyíd gone into service
A partial list of candidates:
XF8U-3
FJ-1 Fury
XF-107 Ultra Saber
F-111B
YF-17 Cobra
F-20 Tigershark
YF-23
X-32
YA-9
SB2U Vindicator
F2A Buffalo
F3A Brewster Corsair
SB2A Buccaneer
YC-14
YC-15
SO3C Seamew
XF5F / XP-50
FH-1 Phantom
XP-55
XP-56
P-75
XF-88
B-18
B-23
XB-35
YB-49

Clearly just a partial list and hampered by my US centric aircraft knowledge. Please contribute your favorite also rans

My idea for a ribbon is a red bar with a gold 2 in the middle.


PeeJay74
#363
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 08, 2014
KitMaker: 418 posts
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 10:52 PM UTC
Nice idea, I have a few of those in the stash.

I am sure I can find an X Plane to fit the campaign.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2019 - 11:40 PM UTC
I like the idea of this one.

Thinking about what I have in my stash, would the Douglas Skyknight fit the campaign?
PasiAhopelto
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: October 01, 2016
KitMaker: 366 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 01:08 AM UTC
Sounds interesting. Does He 177 count? If so, then I'm in.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 06:49 AM UTC
Thanks guys those are good suggestions, Iíll get to the answers. But they highlight an administrative shortcoming; What qualifies a plane for Also Ran status?

I'm proposing the following criteria.

Number built: I was thinking in single digits for planes in fly-offs, normally only one or two were build, XF-107 had 3 and the F-111B had 8. But for the ones that actually got into service, many more would have been built. For now, Iíll use an upper limit of 2000 airframes. Wartime builds would have been larger than peacetime runs.

Obscurity: Was it overshadowed by more successful cousins? We could spill billions of pixels comparing the B-17 and B-24, but not much would come out of a B-29 vs B-32 comparison. Same with TBF Avenger vs. TBY Sea Wolf and XTB2D Sky Pirate.

Performance: Did it fail to meet expectations? Was it underpowered, under armed or did itís competitors / adversaries just perform better?

Time in service: Did it get into frontline service? Did it stay in service for a short time, or was it rapidly replaced by faster, more powerful, more reliable equipment?

Reputation: Was it widely regarded as a bad airplane? Iíll use this as a tiebreaker, if the other the other criteria come out about even. This way I can assure that the Brewster Corsair gets into the mix.

How's all that sound?
Bigrip74
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Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 08:54 AM UTC
Mark, I would be up for this campaign. I will look up ALSO RANS and add to your list to help out.

Bob
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC
I think the Skyknight could qualify for a few of those criterias.
Underpowered.
Low production.
And bad reputation. Crews nicknamed it the Drut!


md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 11:58 AM UTC
Yep I caught the Drut reference in the Wiki article.

As to the two requests.
F3D SkyKnight
Pro: Numbers - only 265 built (Wiki)
Obscure - only a plane geek would know about it, probably less famous than the F-82 Twin Mustang.
Performance - under-powered, heck J46 engined planes may be a hard luck campaign of their own.
Reputation - what's the point in polishing s drut?
Con: Service life - almost 20 years

SkyKnight is IN!

He-177 Grief
Pro: Numbers - OK, less than 2000 (1169 per Wiki), way less than Ju-88 and He-111
Obscure - only a plane geek would know about it, overshadowed by Ju-88 and he-111.
Performance - under-powered, if your engines catch fire, it;s not a good thing. but it does look like it couda been a contenda.
Reputation - Hard to fly, doesn't carry much and the engines catch on fire,
Service life - grounded before the end of the war.

H3-177 Gief is IN!
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 01:48 PM UTC
i like the idea of having a campaign featuring 'also rans' and overshadowed.

There were a lot of aircraft that weren't frontline, but in other roles and other situations, they performed well.

I'm thinking of craft such as the Seversky P-35, the Curtiss P-36, and craft that were drafted into service such as the AVRO Anson, or built as a stop gap such as the CAC Boomerang. And in WW1, the Roland D.VI, the Fokker D. II and D.III, the Hanriot, the Nieuport 28, or the Pfalz E.I.

Not everyone flew Spitfires, Messerschmidts, or Mustangs. Hawker Fury I's were pressed into service in North Africa in 1940. Gloster Gladiators defended Malta. And so on.

Featuring aircraft such as these, and many others also recognizes those who flew them.

I wouldn't restrict it only to WW2, but would include WW1.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 01:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Not everyone flew Spitfires, Messerschmidts, or Mustangs.


Excellent point
And you've identified a few that missed my radar; P-35, P-35 and the Boomerang (0 for 1 against Zeros?). There's plenty more that I don't know about.
I didn't intend to limit the list to WWII to present. No reason not to include everything back to the Wright Flyer.
steviecee
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United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 02:52 PM UTC
He 112?
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 03:10 PM UTC
Wow, I'm learning about a lot of aircraft I'd never heard about before.

He-112, second place to Bf-110 in flyoff, only about 100 samples built. Udet suggested pawning them off on 2nd rate airforces.

I say it's IN. Where ever are you going to find a kit?
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 03:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow, I'm learning about a lot of aircraft I'd never heard about before.

He-112, second place to Bf-110 in flyoff, only about 100 samples built. Udet suggested pawning them off on 2nd rate airforces.

I say it's IN. Where ever are you going to find a kit?



Heller


RS Model


or Rareplanes


For an obscure also-ran, it's been quite well represented.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 04:34 PM UTC
A whole unexpected benefit to this thread.
Bigrip74
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2019 - 05:16 PM UTC
Mark, that's (8) just need (2) more.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 03:31 PM UTC
OK, Here's my count:

MD72 (Mark) SB2U Vindicator or YF-23
Bigrip (Bob)
PeeJay74 (Paul)
Phantom_Phanatic309 (Stephen) F3D Skynight
PasiAhopelto (Pasi) He-177 Grief
Bink123 (Richard)
Steviecee (Steve) He 112
Jessie_C (Jessie)



Anyone else? Any obscure candidates?
RussellE
#306
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 04:20 PM UTC
Great idea for a campaign, Mark.

How about the Boulton Paul Defiant?

Intended to be the RAF's bomber interceptor during WW2, but in reality was quickly phased out due to it's vulnerability to ME109's and lack of forward firing armament.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 04:48 PM UTC
Why not, everyone needs a fighter with a turret! Besides Daffy fits well with Drut.
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 02:42 AM UTC
Well if we're considering the Defiant, then we absolutely must put the Blackburn Roc on the table.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 02:50 AM UTC
As I said earlier:

Quoted Text

Clearly just a partial list and hampered by my US centric aircraft knowledge. Please contribute your favorite also rans


The Roc is in!
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 382 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 07:06 AM UTC
Iíve just started a Sopwith Schneider, would it be acceptable as an also ran - Iíve only just closed up the fuselage. With biplanes this is early stage - still have two sets if wings, floatplane undercarriage, and rigging. Iíd say less than 20% completed.

If not thatís ok - still lots of subjects available.
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 08:30 AM UTC
How about the Fairey Albacore?
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 08:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

How about the Fairey Albacore?



I'd say more than qualifies!
Be great to see one.
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 382 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 09:53 AM UTC
I was just tossing out that idea. i won't be building one. It's a classic also-ran.
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - 04:09 PM UTC
Wow, they're coming fast and furious now.

Sopwith Schneider
Numbers - only 136 built (Wiki)
Obscure - You'd think a plane descended from a Schneider Cup racer would be better known.
Performance - Doesn't seem out of range for 1914.
Reputation - Hit a target by accident.
Service life - almost 1 year

OK it's in!

Fairey Albacore
Numbers - 800 built (Wiki)
Obscure - Was overshadowed by the Swordfish.
Performance - Not that much faster than a Swordfish.
Reputation - Retired before the plane it was supposed to replace.
Service life - 9 years

OK it's in!