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Ships by Class/Type: Destroyers
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Z18 Hans Ludemann, Norway 1940.
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 05:55 AM UTC
I did say my next destroyer was going the be the Eskimo, missing her bow. Unfortunately I have misplaced the etch. With all the complicated stuff going on, I decided to pick a simpler build, also related to the Norwegian Campaign.

I shall ne using the Revell boxing of the Zvezda type 1936 and the WEM etch for that kit.


The Hans Ludemann was involved in the Narvik battles, and after being damaged beached during the second battle. The scuttling charges failed, the ship was boarded by the crew of HMS Hero, , all they found were souvenirs (apparently), and was finished off with a torpedo from the Hero.

This will be pretty much a straight forward build, but I will have a scavenge round the spare box as well.

Here is the kit.





It is a not bad at all, oddly the small parts are very better than the larger ones in detail.

The etch.



Very nice, lots of parts for building a later version too.

Four nice bulkheads to the long slender hull rigid.



Hull halves joined



and they are a good fit,



Just a little light sanding required.

The stern section not bad, but not brilliant.



fixed and the props fitted.



The "Aztec temple steps"need to be removed from the bulkead on the break of the fo'c's'le.



Done and some etched watertight doors fitted



Th etched set has some nice mine rails, so the moulded on ridges that represent them on the deck being removed.



More soon.

Cheers

Si



ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 06:45 AM UTC
Love these builds!

Will be watching for updates!
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 07:01 AM UTC
All right Si, another one hits the ways! The Hans Ludemann kit looks cool, looking forward to this one.

What's up with that base on the sprue, is it supposed to be heavy seas or rock? A homage to the ship's grounding, perhaps?

Littorio
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 07:19 AM UTC
Tim, it’s supposedly meant to be rocks. My one went in the bin when I built the original Zvezda kit, which is kitted as the Z17, so not relevant to the actual ship.
Looking at this I may have to build this kit again as there was no dedicated pe available when I did mine, I just used bits and bobs from general sets.
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 08:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

All right Si, another one hits the ways! The Hans Ludemann kit looks cool, looking forward to this one.

What's up with that base on the sprue, is it supposed to be heavy seas or rock? A homage to the ship's grounding, perhaps?





As Luciano says, this is boxed by Revell as a generic type 1936. It maybe lacks some of the refinement of a Trumpeter or Dragon offering, but it builds well. The I used the Zvezda boxing for the conversion into a 1934 for build the Z10, Hans Lody.


Thanks for looking in,

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Tim, it’s supposedly meant to be rocks. My one went in the bin when I built the original Zvezda kit, which is kitted as the Z17, so not relevant to the actual ship.
Looking at this I may have to build this kit again as there was no dedicated pe available when I did mine, I just used bits and bobs from general sets.



It isn't that bad a kit Luciano, and I recon with the WEM etch, and a few bits and pieces from the spares box, It will come out ok.


Thanks for looking in Mate.

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 08:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Love these builds!

Will be watching for updates!



Hi Charlie,

Glad to have you along for the ride.

Cheers

Si
TimReynaga
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 09:30 AM UTC
Those asymmetrical prop shafts are interesting too.

I've never seen that before.
Quincannon
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 09:53 AM UTC
Simon: If I recall correctly that kit has portholes on the hull that resemble bomb craters. Is this the same kit? If so how do you plan to deal with this.

My local Hobby Town has one in stock, so you have another opportunity to inspire me,
surfsup
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 02:12 PM UTC
Looks like a fun Kit to build so will be watching this one with interest.....Cheers mark
GazzaS
#424
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 03:25 PM UTC
Si,
Now you're talking my language! The poorly conceived German destroyer program has been a favorite subject of mine since the 80's.

Will watch with interest!


Gaz
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 09:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Those asymmetrical prop shafts are interesting too.

I've never seen that before.



Hi Tim,

I believe most of the Zerstorers had an asymmetrical prop layout, more pronounced on the earlier classes. The only conclusion I have been able to draw, is that it was down to cramming 2 35,000 SHP turbines and six boilers in to that hull.

Compare that say to a Tribal class, 44,000 SHP from two shafts and three boilers. it would be quite a squeeze in a hull only 8m longer and 0.65m wider.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers

Si

RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 09:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Simon: If I recall correctly that kit has portholes on the hull that resemble bomb craters. Is this the same kit? If so how do you plan to deal with this.

My local Hobby Town has one in stock, so you have another opportunity to inspire me,



Hi Chuck,

They do look a little oversize in diameter, but they are not overly deep, but the top row below the fo'c's'le may be a little high, and has a few too many ports.



I will fill the few extras to correct the pattern, I have not yet decided whether to fill the lot, drill and glaze.

Glad to have inspired you. Thanks for looking in.

Cheers

Si


RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 09:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks like a fun Kit to build so will be watching this one with interest.....Cheers mark



It is quite good for the price, and goes together well, even when hacked around, as did back one to a type 1934A a couple of years back, this one is a less complex build.
glad to have you aboard.

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Monday, January 21, 2019 - 10:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Si,
Now you're talking my language! The poorly conceived German destroyer program has been a favorite subject of mine since the 80's.

Will watch with interest!


Gaz




Glad to have aboard Gaz,

They weren't the best balanced designs, yet still managed to be rather handsome ships.

I have always had a fascination with the Norwegian campaign, and Narvik is one of the places in Norway top of my list to visit.

Glad to have you aboard.

Cheers

Si


d6mst0
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 10:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Si,
Now you're talking my language! The poorly conceived German destroyer program has been a favorite subject of mine since the 80's.

Will watch with interest!


Gaz



Glad to have aboard Gaz,

They weren't the best balanced designs, yet still managed to be rather handsome ships.

I have always had a fascination with the Norwegian campaign, and Narvik is one of the places in Norway top of my list to visit.

Glad to have you aboard.

Cheers

Si




The German navy suffered dearly during the Norwegian campaign. If it wasn't for the German air force I believe the British could have taken her back from the Germans. They were so successful with their commando raids on Norway that Hitler was forced to keep over a quarter of a million troops there through out the war.

Mark
Quincannon
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 11:22 AM UTC
The Germans took Norway for a reason Mark, flank protection. A few others as well. but it was their northern flank that concerned them the most.

You are probably right concerning German naval loses, and the various successful raids conducted by Combined Special Operations, but had the British taken Norway back, it would have been the British that would have had to tie down a quarter of a million troops holding the place.

It was one of those times when you have to be very careful what you wish for. Somewhere here in the house I have a copy of the British war time book Special Operations, which goes into all of the Commando operations of 40-42. I will have to dig it out and re-read it soon.
JJ1973
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 07:17 PM UTC
Hi Si,

I'm in and following too, of course - even if my commenting still might be a more sporadic one...

Very nice subject, I have the Zvezda one in stock. I always liked this last series of the 5" equipped boats Z17 - Z22. Looking forward to your build very much!

As for the shafts you are absolutely right, that design was for the reason that those boiler rooms and turbines were fittet in different sections (Abteilungen) of the boats so requiring shafts of different length. Actually, that's a very common approach until today, the main difference is that it's so obvious with the German Destroyers of the time, as the shafts exited the hull in different sections. But just check on modern times USN vessels - Ticonderogas, Arleigh Burkes, the old Chrarles F Adams, just to name a few. They all have two different shafts, it's only better concealed...

Cheers,
Jan
RedDuster
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 08:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Si,

I'm in and following too, of course - even if my commenting still might be a more sporadic one...

Very nice subject, I have the Zvezda one in stock. I always liked this last series of the 5" equipped boats Z17 - Z22. Looking forward to your build very much!

As for the shafts you are absolutely right, that design was for the reason that those boiler rooms and turbines were fittet in different sections (Abteilungen) of the boats so requiring shafts of different length. Actually, that's a very common approach until today, the main difference is that it's so obvious with the German Destroyers of the time, as the shafts exited the hull in different sections. But just check on modern times USN vessels - Ticonderogas, Arleigh Burkes, the old Chrarles F Adams, just to name a few. They all have two different shafts, it's only better concealed...

Cheers,
Jan



Glad to have you aboard Jan,

Thanks for your comment, very informative, I presume that also explains asymmetrical funnel layout on the Ticonderoga's.

Cheers

Si.
RedDuster
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 09:19 PM UTC
Hi Mark & Chuck,

The allied attempt to stem the German Conquest of Norway, was a typical British lead foul up. It was not only air power that defeated the allies, it was lack of artillery, no tanks, no winter clothing, poor planning, and poor leadership ashore.

The Royal Navy did inflict a defeat on the Kriegsmarine, sinking almost half their destroyer fleet, the Norwegian shore batteries in the OlsoFjord sunk a heavy cruiser and crippled another, the fleet air arm sunk a light cruiser, but it was at a cost, an Aircraft Carier, two cruisers and seven destroyers.

Once the German forces were established in Norway, it was never a priority to liberate it, bigger fish to fry.

The raids on the Lofloten Islands were not only successful but also excellent combat experience for the commandos, and preparation for operations in France prior to D day. Some interesting Camouflage on the supporting British warships, including, occasionally, German Air recognition markings.

Now there is an interesting project.

Cheers

Si
JJ1973
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Posted: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 10:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I presume that also explains asymmetrical funnel layout on the Ticonderoga's.



Si,

that is exactly correct!!

Cheers,
Jan
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 05:37 AM UTC
Simon: I am going to disagree with you a little bit here. There is no doubt about what you said about the British attempt to hold Norway early in the war. It was a mess. We Americans have another term for it, but this is a clean board and the term offensive.

What the attempt did do though, no matter how ineptly and costly it was, was tell the Norwegian people that we are with you, and help found the Norwegian resistance.

Strategically though it was to the Allies benefit to tie down German forces in Norway, but you can't keep them tied down without an occasional pin prick along the coastline, and active support of the resistance movement.

I never really introduced myself when I came here, but my background is that of a soldier, the Infantry to be specific. My naval interests though stem from long before that, when as a child my father worked at the Naval Gun Factory, the Washington DC Navy Yard, where the USS Drum, and USS Robert F Keller were the station ships, that I visited so many times I lost count. Don't know if you get the American TV program NCIS there in the UK, but the Washington Navy Yard is depicted in the outdoor, and trough the window shots in that program. The shop where my Dad worked, building 16" gun, Building 76, is now the U S Navy Museum
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 07:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Simon: I am going to disagree with you a little bit here. There is no doubt about what you said about the British attempt to hold Norway early in the war. It was a mess. We Americans have another term for it, but this is a clean board and the term offensive.

What the attempt did do though, no matter how ineptly and costly it was, was tell the Norwegian people that we are with you, and help found the Norwegian resistance.

Strategically though it was to the Allies benefit to tie down German forces in Norway, but you can't keep them tied down without an occasional pin prick along the coastline, and active support of the resistance movement.

I never really introduced myself when I came here, but my background is that of a soldier, the Infantry to be specific. My naval interests though stem from long before that, when as a child my father worked at the Naval Gun Factory, the Washington DC Navy Yard, where the USS Drum, and USS Robert F Keller were the station ships, that I visited so many times I lost count. Don't know if you get the American TV program NCIS there in the UK, but the Washington Navy Yard is depicted in the outdoor, and trough the window shots in that program. The shop where my Dad worked, building 16" gun, Building 76, is now the U S Navy Museum




Chuck, always feel free do disagree, I do enjoy healthy debate. I do agree, the attempt to defeat the German invasion did show the Norwegian people that they had not been deserted, the Linge were a great aid in tying down German troops and aiding our operations along the coast.

The later downside was that it put allied convoy routes to Russia in range of land based German air power.

Nice to hear a bit about your background, I started my career at sea on oil tankers, although that was quite brief, I was dumped on the beach shortly after qualifying as a Deck officer, made my way in the same business ashore ever since.


We do get a lot of U.S. TV this side of the pond, including NCIS, which we do enjoy.

By the by we have similar other expressions for "foul up" particularly seafaring ones, which are equally not suitable for this board.

Cheers.

Si
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 08:40 AM UTC
This week's progress.

The odd incorrect porthole filled.



I have decided to live with the rest.

Etched prop guards, which look much more like it than the kit parts.



The replacement mine rails.





and done,



These were fun, as getting the long thin rails did not like coming of the fret anywhere near straight, but they went down ok in the end.

Cheers

Si

surfsup
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 01:43 PM UTC
The Etch is looking might fine Si.....Cheers Mark