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Mikasa 1902 with Pontos 1/200th.
Removed by original poster on 12/18/18 - 17:20:01 (GMT).
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 02:40 AM UTC
Si,

Those turned brass guns are a big improvement! And that's a cool idea with the half open/half closed secondary guns - gives observers a reward for looking at both sides of the finished model.
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, December 17, 2018 - 08:16 AM UTC
Sunday's progress

The seam filled and almost leaned up, not really that bad.



Propeller shafts fitted in place.



The seam cleaned up and the bilge keels fitted.



The kit 6" with the Pontos barrel for comparison, the actual barrel length should be 6.050 mtrs, which translated to just over 30mm, which makes the kit barrel overlong.



fitted, again with an original for comparison.



All 6" guns modified.



Port guns fitted, but not glued.



And the gunports fitted in the closed position. I have used the kit ports, as the Pontos ports have the actual barrel port for the barrel in the closed position on the three centre guns. One slight issue, the hinge points on centre section of each port do not line up with their mounting slots, not a major issue, just a little error.




the starboard guns in place. The starboard ports will be open, and fitted much later in the build.



Cheers

Si.
RedDuster
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 08:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

and now we have the Zumwalt class



A ram wouldn't be a bad idea those ships, they do look a bit like a tall narrow version of a casemate ironclad from the 1860s / 70s.



Cheers

Si
RussellE
#306
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 08:55 AM UTC

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...Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.



I wonder if the ram-like inverted bows of Mikasa and other ships this era were actually intended to serve as rams or were they predecessors of the later bulbous underwater bows intended to increase buoyancy and reduce water resistance?



Tim, I believe the ram like bows were still part of Admiralty belief that ramming was an acceptable tactic.

By WW2 ram bows had all but been abandoned, and only later on, as more hydro testing data became available, bulbous bows were incorporated



Hi Russ & Tim,

The Ram came back into fashion in the early Ironclads, which had few if any, guns capable of penetrating their opponent's armour and they had an appalling rate of fire. Ramming was used with varying success at The Battles of Hampton Roads, Lissa & Iquque in the third quarter of the 19th centaury. It's effectiveness was proved by the accidental ramming of the HMS Victoria by HMS Camperdown in 1893.

The ram was going out of fashion around the time the Mikasa was built, so this could be the "inverted bow" which was the precursor of the bulbous bow. The idea was to maintain the waterline length (the power needed to push a ship the water at any given speed is a function of speed / square root of the length on the waterline,) whilst having less deck exposed to the muzzle flash of the more powerful guns.

From the shape of this, I reckon it was designed to be used as a ram if the opportunity presented itself, whilst serving as an inverted bow.

Cheers

Si




and now we have the Zumwalt class
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 10:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


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...Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.



I wonder if the ram-like inverted bows of Mikasa and other ships this era were actually intended to serve as rams or were they predecessors of the later bulbous underwater bows intended to increase buoyancy and reduce water resistance?



Tim, I believe the ram like bows were still part of Admiralty belief that ramming was an acceptable tactic.

By WW2 ram bows had all but been abandoned, and only later on, as more hydro testing data became available, bulbous bows were incorporated



Hi Russ & Tim,

The Ram came back into fashion in the early Ironclads, which had few if any, guns capable of penetrating their opponent's armour and they had an appalling rate of fire. Ramming was used with varying success at The Battles of Hampton Roads, Lissa & Iquque in the third quarter of the 19th centaury. It's effectiveness was proved by the accidental ramming of the HMS Victoria by HMS Camperdown in 1893.

The ram was going out of fashion around the time the Mikasa was built, so this could be the "inverted bow" which was the precursor of the bulbous bow. The idea was to maintain the waterline length (the power needed to push a ship the water at any given speed is a function of speed / square root of the length on the waterline,) whilst having less deck exposed to the muzzle flash of the more powerful guns.

From the shape of this, I reckon it was designed to be used as a ram if the opportunity presented itself, whilst serving as an inverted bow.

Cheers

Si

RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 09:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text



I've been wanting to build Borodino or one of the other Russian pre-dreadnoughts. Finding one in 200 scale would be awesome.

Gaz




Unfortunately Gaz, Mikasa, albeit in two forms is the only game in town in this scale. 1/350th there are a fair few Russian pre-dreads both plastic & resin.


any other pre-dread in 1/200th would be fine by me.

Cheers, Si

RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 09:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Si,

that's another very cool subject you chose! And another one I'm really happy that I don't have to serve on board....
Very nice start, and of course I'm in and following! Looking forward to one more special build of yours, mate!

Cheers,
Jan




Thanks Jan,

Always glad to have you aboard mate. This is my first step into this scale, in theory this should be a little simpler than the WW2 era battlewagons. We shall have to see how it goes.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
#306
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 27, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 09:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.



I wonder if the ram-like inverted bows of Mikasa and other ships this era were actually intended to serve as rams or were they predecessors of the later bulbous underwater bows intended to increase buoyancy and reduce water resistance?



Tim, I believe the ram like bows were still part of Admiralty belief that ramming was an acceptable tactic.

By WW2 ram bows had all but been abandoned, and only later on, as more hydro testing data became available, bulbous bows were incorporated
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: May 03, 2006
KitMaker: 2,270 posts
AeroScale: 279 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 11:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.



I wonder if the ram-like inverted bows of Mikasa and other ships this era were actually intended to serve as rams or were they predecessors of the later bulbous underwater bows intended to increase buoyancy and reduce water resistance?
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 09:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Si,
It'll be interesting seeing your plan come to fruition. The old ship was quite stout, eh? Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.

Gaz




Hi Gaz,

So will I, it is a bit organic. Like almost all aftermarket sets, the order of the kit and the Pontos instructions bear no relationship to each other, and neither of them bear any relationship to the order I do things in.


The pre-dreadnoughts were sturdy beasts for there size, and with those big guns on such a small hull made them look tough. I like the elegance of the ram bow, even though they were totally impractical at the time of this fine vessel.

Cheers

Si



I've been wanting to build Borodino or one of the other Russian pre-dreadnoughts. Finding one in 200 scale would be awesome.

Gaz
JJ1973
#345
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 08:23 AM UTC
Si,

that's another very cool subject you chose! And another one I'm really happy that I don't have to serve on board....
Very nice start, and of course I'm in and following! Looking forward to one more special build of yours, mate!

Cheers,
Jan
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 09:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Si,
It'll be interesting seeing your plan come to fruition. The old ship was quite stout, eh? Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.

Gaz




Hi Gaz,

So will I, it is a bit organic. Like almost all aftermarket sets, the order of the kit and the Pontos instructions bear no relationship to each other, and neither of them bear any relationship to the order I do things in.


The pre-dreadnoughts were sturdy beasts for there size, and with those big guns on such a small hull made them look tough. I like the elegance of the ram bow, even though they were totally impractical at the time of this fine vessel.

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 09:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Si -
I've been a bit of a lurker lately - modeling mojo gone a little flat but it always returns . I have been following your builds for a bit now and want to compliment you on your workmanship and I , like many , am amazed at your prolific output.
Keep it up - fuel for inspiration.
Cheers - Richard




Hi Richard,

Thank you for your kind comments, I am glad you are enjoying what I am doing. I am a little more prolific than usual as currently I am working from home and that gives me an hour or two most evenings to sneak into the workshop and do a bit.


Glad to have you looking in, and please feel free to comment any time you like.

Cheers

Si
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 10:58 AM UTC
Si,
It'll be interesting seeing your plan come to fruition. The old ship was quite stout, eh? Quite a pronounced ram bow, too.

Gaz
rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 10:57 AM UTC
Hi Si -
I've been a bit of a lurker lately - modeling mojo gone a little flat but it always returns . I have been following your builds for a bit now and want to compliment you on your workmanship and I , like many , am amazed at your prolific output.
Keep it up - fuel for inspiration.
Cheers - Richard
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 10:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Si,

You are a brave fellow removing and cutting all of those molded on pieces. That is one step I always dread is hacking and slashing to make way for new pieces.

Mark




Hi Mark,

It still makes me a "little" nervous to say the least, but I reckon if it didn't it would massively increase the possibility of an unrecoverable mistake. One thing I have learned is that planning is the key.

Thanks for looking in mate.

Cheers

Si




d6mst0
#453
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 08:28 AM UTC
Si,

You are a brave fellow removing and cutting all of those molded on pieces. That is one step I always dread is hacking and slashing to make way for new pieces.

Mark
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 07:48 AM UTC
This week's progress.

Still steel cutting.

The decks, a before & after of each section.













Test fitting the hull sections revealed some ejector pin marks that fouled the fit of the 6" gun deck.



Fixed.



Last job before keel laying, drilling out the holes for mounting the etched steps for the iron ladders.

Template for the Port hawse pipe steps taped in place.



And drilled with a 0.4mm bit.



Stbd stern chase gunport done, the template is sat on the hull.



The interior test fitted, In this shot the 6" gundeck is the wrong way round, it does actually have a arrow pointing to the bow on it, but I had missed that.



The Hull assembled, the central bulkhead is "fun" to get in the right place.



The fit of the hull halves were not the best fit along the bottom, but easily cured with a bit of filler.



Next job, 6" guns, then the externa detail on the hull.

Cheers

Si



RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2018 - 07:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Si, thanks for the great shots of the moldings - I'm seriously considering adding this Mikasa to the stash!
One thing though; I wonder why kit manufacturers so often assume that the plating detail on the hull sides ends at the waterline?





You are welcome Tim,

It is a very nicely moulded kit, and it has a comprehensive amount of etch included. I am just slightly mad when it comes to extras.

I have to agree, there is often quite a lot going on below the waterline, not only in the way of plating, but sea chests, overboard discharges etc, and most kits are a little bland below the waterline.


Cheers

Si
TimReynaga
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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California, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2018 - 05:12 AM UTC
Si, thanks for the great shots of the moldings - I'm seriously considering adding this Mikasa to the stash!
One thing though; I wonder why kit manufacturers so often assume that the plating detail on the hull sides ends at the waterline?

RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2018 - 09:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Si,
You are a machine! Looking forward to seeing you do this one!


Gaz



Welcome aboard Gazza, glad to have you along for the ride.

Cheers

Si
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2018 - 09:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Watching with interest Si.

Did Pontos give you a guide to what you should sand off the hull?

Is this the 1902 version of the ship or are you adapting a 1905 Pontos set to a 1902 version?

Cheers
Warren



Hi Warren,

I am adapting, as much as possible the Pontos set to work with the 1902 version. The most notable differences are the fighting tops and the vent cowls on the 1902 version. I will admit now I may end up with a few temporal anomalies, as I cannot find much in the way of clear photographs of the ship in this era.

Cheers

Si
GazzaS
#424
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2018 - 09:22 PM UTC
Si,
You are a machine! Looking forward to seeing you do this one!


Gaz
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Monday, December 10, 2018 - 02:28 PM UTC
Watching with interest Si.

Did Pontos give you a guide to what you should sand off the hull?

Is this the 1902 version of the ship or are you adapting a 1905 Pontos set to a 1902 version?

Cheers
Warren