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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Kevin Brant
WnW Kits and Gaps
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 02:30 AM UTC
Well, I'm having to revise this list faster than a change of the proverbial underwear! WnW has just announced kit number 32049 will be a Halberstadt CLII, so I've updated this list. Still, there are 17 "holes to fill". I have not added the 4 new kits with figures yet-- they are in the 800 series I believe.

I know, you were thinking this was about some unsightly seam gap in a WnW kit but it's not--I'm speaking of a different kind of "gap". So, we all know that WnW does some amazing work--with no "gaps". But what does the future hold for us? I took a little time to research their product line, and discovered there are 18 "gaps" to be filled in the numerical sequence of kits. 22 of their kits are "sold out". Here's a listing of their product numbers in sequence. Single Kits are prefixed with a "320"; The three "Duellist" kits are preceded with "328" and the Albatros Trilogy was kit #32701. The single kit line goes up to 76 numbers (so far). An asterix means the kit is "sold out":

*32001 - Junkers J1*
*02 - LVG CVI*
*03 - SE5*
04 - F2B
*05 - Gotha GIV*
*06 - Pfalz DIIIa*
07 - DH9
*08 - Sopwith Trip.*
*09 - Alb DV*
*10 - HB W29*
*11 - Fokk. DVII (Fok)*
*12 - RE8*
*13 - Pup (RFC)*
14 - FE2B early
*15 - Alb DVa*
*16 - Pup (RNAS)*
17 - Roland DVIb (Benz)
*18 - Fokk. EII / EIII early
19 - Pfalz DXII
20 - Snipe early
21 - Fokk. EI
*22 - Roland DVIa (Merc)*
23 - Rumpler CIV early
*24 - Hannover CLII*
25 - FE2B late
26 - Roland CII
*27 - Fokk. DVII (Alb)*
*28 - DH2*
29 - Fokk. EIV
*30 - Fokk. DVII (OAW)*
*31 - Fokk. DVII (Fokk.)*
32 - ?
33 - ?
34 - AEG GIV early
35 - AMC DH9
36 - HB W12 early
37 - Rumpler CIV late
38 - Salmson 2A2 (Otsu)
39 - ?
40 - DFW CV mid
41 - Roland CIIa late
42 - AEG GIV late
43 - ?
44 - ?
45 - ?
46 - Alb. BII early
*47 - Alb. DVa (OAW)*
48 - Fokk. EIII late
49 -Halberstadt CLII (TBR--2018)
50 - Felixtowe early
51 - ?
52 - ?
53 - ?
54 - Snipe late
55 - ?
56 - ?
57 - DFW CV late
58 - Jeannin Stahltaube
59 - Salmson 2A2 USAS
60 - F2B Post War
61 - DH9 Post War
62 - ?
63 - ?
64 - ?
65 - Junkers D1
66 - Felixstowe late
67 - Fokker DVII early
68 - ?
69 - ?
70 - Camel BR1
71 - Camel Le Rhone
72 - Camel USAS
73 - Dolphin
74 - Camel Clerget
75 - ?
76 - Camel (Ship's)
Duellists:
32801 - Felixstowe & W29
*802 - Fokk. EIII & DH2*
803 - Camel & LVG
Special:
*32701 - Alb. trio*

I'm not going to try to put any rhyme or reason with the numbering system--Kits are not necessarily listed by manufacturing dates, with some early numbers being taken by later manufactured kits and vice-versa. For instance, their last kit announced is the Halberstadt which is kit #32049 but it was preceded by kits with higher numbers, such as the Dolphin, kit #32073. But the gaps are interesting. Even if they stop at the total of 76 kits (where they are as of this date), logically we still have at least 17 more kits to look forward to in their product line (or more if the line is extended). I don't think there's ever been a kit manufacturer in the history of modelling that has attempted what WnW is doing with a line of specific models. Before you ask, I'm retired and it's Winter--we've had more snow here in the last week than in the last 7 years, so I have the time to think about and fiddle with this kind of stuff!
VR, Russ




rdt1953
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 04:40 AM UTC
Russ -

You're a better man than I - this kind of stuff makes my brain hurt .

Richard
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 05:01 AM UTC
Richard, I didn't do it all in one sitting. Weather has been cold and nasty here the last two weeks, so I had some time--too cold to model in my un-heated garage. So I've been wondering what's going to go in those gaps. I'm a happy man now that I have a 1/32 scale Dolphin on my shelf-- but I still can't help wondering about what's coming up. I for one hope there's a Hanroit (for the Belgian aces), a Hansa Brandenberg D1 (also known as a star strutter),an Aviatic Berg D-I (for the Austrian aces) and maybe a Dux built Nieuport or other aircraft (for the Russians). I'd also love to see a Camproni CA2 bomber, which I'd snap up in a heartbeat as NYC's Mayor La Guardia flew one for the Italians with US livery. Maybe they would even issue some observation balloons? Or a Zeppelin? (that would be huge and likely un-affordable!). But I guess I'll be happy with the Dophin if none of those are forthcoming. Gives us something to think about and look forward to though!
VR, Russ
Willard79
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 06:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know, you were thinking this was about some unsightly seam gap in a WnW kit



Yes...yes I was.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 06:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I know, you were thinking this was about some unsightly seam gap in a WnW kit



Yes...yes I was.



Sorry to disappoint! But you won't find that in Sir Jackson's kits!
VR, Russ
Willard79
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 07:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But you won't find that in Sir Jackson's kits!


Exactly, hence my curiosity...it was good bait, I'll give you that.
OEFFAG_153
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Västra Götaland, Sweden
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Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 01:16 PM UTC
Those "gaps" are intriguing.

I have one guess: We have not seen all Sopwiths yet. Number 75 is still vacant between two Camels. Could this be a Sopwith Comic? (Nighfigter version of the Camel) Or are we in for a 1 1/2 Strutter? Either would be most welcome

/Mikael
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 11:04 PM UTC
Mikael, we can hope! Of course there's also the hope they'll continue thier product line past the series of 76 kits. I know Richard Alexander said they didn't plan on issuing kits that have been done by others, but they've now kitted a Camel (which Hobbycraft and Academy have done). Are a new Fokker Triplane (Roden) or some Nieuports (Academy/Hobbycraft/Roden) possibilities? How about a Brueget 14? Or a Voisin? So many possibilities.....
VR, Russ
OEFFAG_153
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Västra Götaland, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 01:31 PM UTC
Well Russ, I have a my own little theory about a surprise release from WnWs this April of a red triplane... (lets not forget they have the engine already in the "Le Rhone" Camel kit).

May of course not happen. But in an effort to make it so – I will start working on a Roden DR1 quite soon

/Mikael
redcap
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 04:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well Russ, I have a my own little theory about a surprise release from WnWs this April of a red triplane... (lets not forget they have the engine already in the "Le Rhone" Camel kit).

May of course not happen. But in an effort to make it so – I will start working on a Roden DR1 quite soon

/Mikael




That would be my best bet too Mikael being the 100th anniversary of the death of MVR is in April 2018. Also given the Roy Brown Camel used in that action is already kited and the decals printed in the BR1 version, then even a "Duellists" boxing with the Dr1 as a new tool release would be a marketing no brainer and an instant 'collectable'. My guess would be that such a kit/boxing would be the fastest 'Sell out' ever in the range!

Gary


rdt1953
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 04:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Well Russ, I have a my own little theory about a surprise release from WnWs this April of a red triplane... (lets not forget they have the engine already in the "Le Rhone" Camel kit).

May of course not happen. But in an effort to make it so – I will start working on a Roden DR1 quite soon

/Mikael




That would be my best bet too Mikael being the 100th anniversary of the death of MVR is in April 2018. Also given the Roy Brown Camel used in that action is already kited and the decals printed in the BR1 version, then even a "Duellists" boxing with the Dr1 as a new tool release would be a marketing no brainer and an instant 'collectable'. My guess would be that such a kit/boxing would be the fastest 'Sell out' ever in the range!

Gary





My thoughts exactly ! I suppose it may come down to Sir Peter's philosophy-
Hmm- do I create another esoteric kit or do I bow to the masses and make a ton of $$$ ?
As common as it may be I wouldn't mind a Wingnut Dr 1 in the stash and if I ever built it I might even paint it red !

Richard
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 09:42 PM UTC
We'll see--I hope you guys are right, but being that it's already the 2nd of March, I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime, here's a link to my two Roden builds over at LSP (when I look at them I wish WnW would release a DR1). Fit is not so hot compared to a WnW kit, and there are more than a few inaccuracies, but its not too bad a kit.
https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3178
VR, Russ
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 03:10 PM UTC
Nice builds Russ, I've built two of Rodens tripes (none of them red), but this was when the kit was new back in (Oh my)2005?. Will be interesting to "compare the feel of it" now.

As for WnWs philosophy – it's hard to guess. They would proabably need a few big sellers to be able to afford the esoteric kits. (Even though they obviously don't operate according to regular laws of markets and product development).
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 10:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

As for WnWs philosophy – it's hard to guess. They would proabably need a few big sellers to be able to afford the esoteric kits. (Even though they obviously don't operate according to regular laws of markets and product development).



Mikael,
So here's some more "math" in regards to thier business model:

1) 59 single kits issued so far since 2009 and 19 of them have sold out
2) 3 "Duellist" kits issued, 1 sold out
3) 1 "Trilogy" kit issued, 1 sold out.

So... almost 1/3 of thier single kits have sold out since they started manufacturing in April 2009. I think the fastest kit to sell out was the "Trilogy" kit, which was gone in less than eight months. The second fastest seller was the Fokker DVIIs within 2 years, followed by the Albatros and Hannover (about three years-- can't figure that one out--but it seemed to be gone in a flash) and maybe the W29. Fastest selling "Deullist" kit has been the Fokker DIII and DH2. German aircraft seem to be the fastest sell-outs for sure.

I have no idea how many they make of each kit. But that number could explain the "fast" sell outs-- and in the "Deullist" case, I suspect the cost/value matchup is what the cause of the Fokker/DH2 sell-out is (you could buy the two together cheaper than the two separately--at least that's what I did when they came out). That may be a reason to continue to package kits like that (a Camel/DR1 packaging would be an instant seller as you mentioned--and probably would sell out in a matter of weeks). The other "Deullist" kits are a little more costly, which is why they're not sold out yet (I think that may be the reason) but I think the LVG/Camel matchup is a little cheaper than the Felixstowe/W29, so,it may sell better.

It's interesting when WnW announced a price increase a few years ago, nobody really even blinked. The value was still there. It appears with all the sell-outs, the customers are still there too. I don't know how much "subsidy" Peter Jackson gives them-- maybe none now. I suspect if it's a good business model, he was good for the start up costs, and is now reaping a reward (can't be better than the movie business though!). So it appears thier philosophy of development, manufacturing and marketing is working. I think it also depends on us, and the demand and interest for these kits and early aviation in general. They have found a niche, let's hope they keep it. I don't know how well thier new distribution system is running for them (I had my own hiccups with Weta Workshop when the Camel came out, but they corrected that beautifully in my case, so I think it's running well), and now they seem to have distribution points that are cranking the kits out quickly-- that's a great plus. The only other company that's come close to their niche is Roden-- but they haven't released a new 1/32 WWI kit for a while now-- likely because WnW is the undisputed leader.
VR, Russ
redcap
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 01:26 AM UTC
Russ - Some sound observations well put!
bzak
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 03:40 AM UTC
Howdy,

Being a masochist at heart, I'll hold my breath until the Pfalz D-VIII is released.

Brian Riedel
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 12:22 PM UTC
Greetings fellow forumites. Knowing Sir Peter Jackson as I do, I would like to offer a point of view. Now if you purchased the set of extended LotR DVDs you would have the separate dic annexes and "How we did the stuff behind the scenes". Peter's views are the backbone of these discs.

In his daily production of the movies he wouild go into Weta and look at the sketches and drawings that his crew had done for the various characters he wanted in the film. They had scenes of him walking along walls that were filled with these sketches. Peter would go along and say "I'll have 5 of those and 10 of those the big fellow has to be done before these. I want maquettes done of of those and I want . . ." This is a keen insight to his own view. He likened it to his visits to the toy store and being like a kid again.

Thie sort of activity was followed by the sketch being stamped with a red star with the initials "PJ". The crew simply could not proceed without it. He mentioned this again in the Youtube interview that discussed how he chose which WnW project to proceed with. "I'll have that and we'll do that one too".

Peter chooses & they proceed only when he has given his "PJ Lock off". You are right as well that he is keenly aware about the 100th anniversary of MvR's death. What he has chosen was probably Locked off a year ago.
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 12:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy,

Being a masochist at heart, I'll hold my breath until the Pfalz D-VIII is released.

Brian Riedel



Now I wonder who has done a 1/32 resin SH.IIIa motor? Hhhhmmmm.
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2018 - 06:36 PM UTC
Very interesting and insightful Stephen. This goes a long way explaining why WnWs current line up looks as it does.

Cheers!
/Mikael
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Howdy,

Being a masochist at heart, I'll hold my breath until the Pfalz D-VIII is released.

Brian Riedel



Now I wonder who has done a 1/32 resin SH.IIIa motor? Hhhhmmmm.



Not sure if anyone makes a Resin SH.IIIa, but Roden did a quite acceptable job on the SH.III engine for the Siemens Schuckert Werk DIII. I built the kit sometime back, and was quite impressed with the engine (not the rest of the kit mind you--which had a lot of fit problems). Roden has separate kit engines for sale, but not the SH DIII as far as I know. Here's a link to my SSDW III:

http://largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3157

VR, Russ
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 04:43 AM UTC
https://www.aviattic.co.uk/uploads/4/5/1/3/45139653/s889257479264688213_p209_i3_w1280.jpeg

https://www.aviattic.co.uk/
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 10:31 AM UTC
My builds

Early & Late SSW D.III

Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2018 - 12:22 PM UTC
Stephen, nice builds-- is this the 1/32 kit or 1/48th?
VR, Russ
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 09:11 AM UTC
Roden 1/32.
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, March 09, 2018 - 09:34 PM UTC
Stephen, really nice work-- I especially like you brass work around the louvers and engine. I carved mine our, but yours looks more convincing. Not the easiest kit to build for sure.
VR, Russ