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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Arado Ar 196 B question
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2018 - 11:56 PM UTC
Found at least a partial answer to my own question.


Link to the HpH sales page for the Arado catapult:

http://shop.hphmodels.cz/en/model-kits-in-scale-132/96-katapult-arado-ar-196-v-meritku-132.html


Link to catapult assembly instruction sheet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B02eBUTK16wGVHd4bmY2SWVHbGc/view
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 12:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Pedro for pointing me in the right direction. I have now tried to research the question of armament for the 196 so far with very little luck.

I did find one notation that mentions twin cannons mounted in each wing outside the propeller arc but the outer guns appear to have been removed due to excess weight.

As I am now close to mounting the engine I just discovered the "pipe" that mounts between two of the starboard side cylinder heads is actually a shield that the fuselage mounted 20mm shoots through! How strange???

Of course this also means the engine somehow has an "interrupter" linkage connected to the gun to keep it from hitting the propeller blades. Doubly strange. Why not just mount ALL guns in the wings and avoid all the linkage troubles and extra weight?


As mass is added outboard of an aircraft's centerline polar moment of inertia increases - that means it will take more effort to start to move the aircraft about it's roll axis and once it it is rolling it will take more effort to stop it . Weight in the wings also increases the load on the spar/ wing connections in static ( non flying) mode .
Aircraft designers like to keep mass centered when possible.
Richard
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 03:40 AM UTC
Is that equally true when the outboard load is perfectly balanced? (Equal guns on both wings.)

(Obviously that part about increased strain on the wing/spar remains true.)

Boy I bet those pontoons really mess up those roll calculations. The pontoons must act like the keel weight on a sailboat and limit the aircraft's ability/agility to do roll manuveurs.
rdt1953
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Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 03:59 AM UTC
[quote]Is that equally true when the outboard load is perfectly balanced? [quote]

Yes because the mass still has to be accelerated ( change in direction is acceleration just as change in velocity is ) If the aircraft rolls to the right the mass in the right wing has some help from gravity but the fact remains that the more mass an object has the more effort (energy) it takes to accelerate it. In two perfectly balanced wings that are equal in every way except for the location of the center of mass the wing with it's mass center further outboard will take more effort to roll and consequently more effort to stop rolling. " objects at rest tend to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force and objects in motion tend to stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force "
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 01:23 AM UTC
Engine mounted to fuselage - finally! The body work took a lot more time than I expected - my fault not the model's *. I would paint that fuselage and then find bodywork that still needed doing (or re-doing.)


I continue to be amazed that the machine gun shoots THROUGH that large pipe mounted between the engine cylinders!


Again please note: I added additional fuel injector detail in the rear of the engine near the oil reservoir. Hey Revell, why make that area accessible and viewable then not include more detail? - just asking.

* The fuselage closed up nicely. The acceptation would be that area on the underside of the fuselage just behind the wings. Huge gaps and seams there to fill.
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 02:59 AM UTC
A few catapult questions:

I am thinking of scratch building an aircraft catapult in 1/32 scale for my Arado. However in that scale the typical ship's catapult works out to 22 and 1/3 inches in length.

The photo below got me asking if possibly there might be other, more compact catapult designs available?

The unit pictured below seems unusual to me. First is appears to be mounted on a barge so I am guessing that it might be located at a training facility.

Then too, it doesn't seem to be as long as those catapults usually seen on German Capital Ships. AND instead of the rotating base being mounted in the middle of the catapult beam, the base appears to be attached at the rear end of the beam.

Anyone have other info or reference?

OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 02:08 PM UTC
Hi Michael,

I very recently finished the A3 version of this kit.

I had the Kegero books by my side, and if memory serves the armament developed during the production runs. The wing mounted 20 mm guns appeared from series A2. So it maybe the B did'nt have them installed?

I have the top drawings at home, so I can double check this for you tonight. I think the B is represented.

All the best
/Mikael
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 07:52 PM UTC
Well, a quick look in the top drawings, show that the B0 had the same wing layout as the A3 – with guns and access panels – so you're good there. Wheter the guns were actually installed in the prototype or not, is a different question. But the outer apperance is the same.

The drawings also confirms what you've already found out about the missing catapult attachemnt on the fuselage.

/Mikael
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 - 10:09 PM UTC
Mikael - my original question (that perhaps you drawings can answer.) What are the two cylindrical structures on the leading edge of the wings?

I thought they might be landing lights. They appear to be shuttered and the instructions say to paint one red and the other brown????
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 02:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mikael - my original question (that perhaps you drawings can answer.) What are the two cylindrical structures on the leading edge of the wings?

I thought they might be landing lights. They appear to be shuttered and the instructions say to paint one red and the other brown????



Michael – Those are the 20 mm gun instalations. The barrels are not visible as such, what you see are the covers, and apparnetly the mussels are also covered. I guess they are either taped over or, I think, covered with a "red"? cone that was removed before missions? So, no, not landing lights. As for the colourings, I have found several anomalities for the Revell instructions of the A3. If you look on the wings You'll see the access panels for loading, lining up with the cylindrical structures.

OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 03:01 AM UTC
Here's a pic of my build with the gun mussel and access panel marked. Hope this makes it clear.

165thspc
#521
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 03:17 AM UTC
I started my drawing using HpH's illustration of their 1/48 scale catapult, I modified that design into my rendition of what I THINK the smaller "training" catapult might look like in the photo below.

165thspc
#521
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 05:53 AM UTC
Mikael, thank you for clearing that up!
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 01:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mikael, thank you for clearing that up!



Glad I could help Michael. A question for you – what marking options does the B0 have – just the pre-war one, or are there other choices?

/Mikael
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 - 10:28 PM UTC
This is the only marking option. I do not know Revell's source for these markings as it does not match the historic photos. Also Revell includes matching large (huge) lettering for the wings.



165thspc
#521
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 01:11 AM UTC
Mikael - what does the tan rectangle represent on the top of the fuselage on your model, halfway back to the tail fin?

Beautifully done model!
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 01:01 PM UTC
Thank You Michael – and thank you for the intel on the markings – I liked building the A3 so much I may do the single float sometime as well...

Looking at the YouTube Video, I'd say this is where Revell found the info on your individual. This would seem to be a different craft from the one in your photos here. I think there were at least two B0s constructed. Interestingly, it looks like both have a three bladed prop? (This is also suggested in my book).

The tan square is the access hatch for the mother compass. Pictures of the plane I built (which flew off the Tirpitz) suggests this was either painted in light grey, or left unpainted (fabric covered).

Looking forward to more of your build.
/Mikael
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 09:48 PM UTC
Mikael might I ask for the link to the YouTube video you are referring to? The only one I have ever seen is the one where the Arado looses its' engine.

I was never sure just how many single float 196's were actually built. Clearly they must have all had different registration numbers/letters so I am not suggesting that the Revell model has a incorrect registration.


Interesting article with photos I had not seen before:

http://worldwartwo.filminspector.com/2014/07/arado-ar-196-seaplane.html
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 10:10 PM UTC
Michael, I was refering to the YouTube link posted previously in your build log (where the B0 looses its engine).

This plane has the same registration letters as your build. (pause the film about 30 sec, before it tries to lift off again).

The source saying two prototype planes is actually Wikipedia, so that may not be the entire story...

Mikael
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 10:21 PM UTC
Interesting image just found online:

I am guessing they felt it necessary to protect the weapons from the salt spray so they shuttered the barrel in the wing mount.



Arado weapons access hatch up for sale online at:

https://www.axis-militaria.com/product/ww2-german-luftwaffe-wartungsklappe-access-hatch-3-ar196-floatplane/
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 - 10:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Interesting image just found online:





Arado weapons access hatch up for sale online at:

https://www.axis-militaria.com/product/ww2-german-luftwaffe-wartungsklappe-access-hatch-3-ar196-floatplane/



Nice!
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 - 12:01 AM UTC
More advice requested:

Having trouble finding seated German pilot figures for the Arado.

Suggestions please.
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 - 12:03 AM UTC
Mikael thanks for all the info and your interest in my project.
c4willy
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 - 03:40 AM UTC
Hi Michael take a look at this link is this what you had in mind?
165thspc
#521
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Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 - 05:13 AM UTC
Chris, I like the pose (and the price) but I do wish the pose was open faced as I hope to be able to position the aircraft either as landing or on the catapult just before launch.

I did just find a pilot figure from JP Productions. The figure also includes multiple posed arms, a choice of heads and a separate oxygen mask and hose. (However the figure is a bit pricey, costing more than the Revell model.)