login   |    register
Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M1 155mm
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 02:32 AM UTC
Tinkering with the Bronco kit. Very fiddly but really nice details. Don't want to screw it up so here is where I'm at with it. It will be in travelling mode (really convinced someone will come out with an M5 HST in the near future)

Any suggestions or errors thus far, let me know.





retiredyank
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
AeroScale: 79 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 03:55 AM UTC
That's nice, clean assembly. I have a Priest that I botched the gun assembly, on. Perhaps, I can do a wif, with the 155mm. I look forward to the rest of your build.
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:05 AM UTC
One good thing about the camera it shows every flaw. See a couple of rough spots needing putty and the recuperating springs need some additional cleanup
HeavyArty
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,689 posts
AeroScale: 1,728 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:38 AM UTC
It is coming along really nicely. This is a great kit. Don't forget that the barrel should be left bare metal as it is part of the recoil system. Below is a later model M114, but the basic gun is the same.


Bronco makes a metal barrel for it that represents this really well.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,382 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Tinkering with the Bronco kit. Very fiddly but really nice details. Don't want to screw it up so here is where I'm at with it. It will be in travelling mode (really convinced someone will come out with an M5 HST in the near future)

Any suggestions or errors thus far, let me know.








Gino is right about the barrel. Another thing is that the top of the breech block was often left bare metal. This was done so they could set a level / protractor on top it. Later ones used a different setup with the gunner's scope.

The elevating gears are bare metal, but will have a good coating of dark colored grease. The jack is different on the one your building than the later ones. The one in the photo is the late M114. That one uses an elevating screw system. Suspect the jack plate is the same. Barrels are never ever left bare due to rust. They are coated with grease every day. Might be a red grease or it might be green. I've also seen brown and black. The ground finish will still show thru the grease. If your showing the howitzer after it's been fired, you'll see a dark ring on the barrel where the recoil stopped (60 inches with a charge seven white bag, but might be 30" with a lighter charge).
The large springs are painted, but the paint flakes off rather quickly.

They probably used a 7.5 ton truck or a five ton to tow the pig. Weighs 12,600lb. Now what we look at in your photo has a couple issues if setup to be towed. Do not install the gun sight on the left side of the tube. The breech has the firing lock installed in the photo. No howitzer will ever be out on the road with the scope or firing lock during a war time move. Many units simply stuck a rag inside the bore for the firing lock. Still many more went a step further by covering the breech block with a sang bag. Also in combat, the spades are never left on the gun when being moved. They'll be in the back of another truck. The idea is to render the gun unfireable! Without the rag in the hole for the firing lock it will be unfireable anyway! Last thing any body wants is the enemy to get their hands on a usable 155mm howitzer.
Now there is a cover that goes over the front third of the gun. Seems like it might go all the way to the shields. Only used one two or three times. If it were being air lifted (M1's were not), the gun would be stripped.. No matter what the tube would be plugged at the muzzle as well.

Units will often customize the brackets on the trails to fit their needs. I've seen guns with different brackets in the same unit. Look at the photos from WWII and Korea. Hope this is a start.
gary
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It is coming along really nicely. This is a great kit. Don't forget that the barrel should be left bare metal as it is part of the recoil system. Below is a later model M114, but the basic gun is the same.


Bronco makes a metal barrel for it that represents this really well.



Roger that! Didn't know about the aftermarket barrel though. Will need to go the Alclad route. Gary makes some interesting observations for this piece in travelling mode.
Need to find out how much of the gunners sight mount needs to be removed for travel mode.



This is my inspiration for this build. Both pics purportedly are of the 113th FA Bn. My favorite may be copyright, hence the link

https://www.battlefieldhistorian.com/itemimages/bhc000768zoom.jpg



KurtLaughlin
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,401 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tinkering with the Bronco kit. Very fiddly but really nice details. Don't want to screw it up so here is where I'm at with it. It will be in travelling mode (really convinced someone will come out with an M5 HST in the near future)

Any suggestions or errors thus far, let me know..



The shields are off in a couple of dimensions and the lower inside corner shapes are off, but they are passable. I don't have my notes handy, but at some point they increased the size of the cut outs around the wheels (horizontal and vertical). I forget if it was when they changed the brakes for the M1A1 or when they changed the tires. Anyhoo, it's the reason that kit shields don't look right around the tires in one of the versions.

KL
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,665 posts
AeroScale: 832 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:36 PM UTC
Chris,
When it first came out several years ago, I looked at this kit, but decided to pass since it looked more like the later M114 than the older M1-- the tires and wheels seemed like they were the later type as I recall. I was in the 9th DIVARTY in 1981-2, and we had the M114, which was towed by the M54. I hope you're right about an M5 being released, I'd also like to see a Mack NO, which could also be used I think.
VR, Russ
Frenchy
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,717 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It will be in travelling mode (really convinced someone will come out with an M5 HST in the near future)



At least there's already one available in 1/35th scale from Hobby Fan (resin kit HF-004 ) :



http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=19608

H.P.

27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It will be in travelling mode (really convinced someone will come out with an M5 HST in the near future)



At least there's already one available in 1/35th scale from Hobby Fan (resin kit HF-004 ) :



http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=19608

H.P.





This and one from Commander Models presently are the only game in town. Based on the build review its not a great kit but I may have to suck it up and find one to build. They are also very expensive.
HeavyArty
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,689 posts
AeroScale: 1,728 posts
Posted: Monday, October 23, 2017 - 11:17 PM UTC
Here is what needs to be left off for traveling config. On the left side of the gun breech is the PanTel (Panoramic Telescope) sight. It is the item with the circle (with a level bubble in the middle of it) and a cylinder coming up from the top with an angled head.



On the bottom of the PanTel is a small knob. This knob loosens and allows the sight to be removed, leaving just three mounting holes.



Note that these are all museum "gate guards" with the barrels painted over. Here are more shot of in-service ones with the bare metal barrel.



trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,382 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 01:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is what needs to be left off for traveling config. On the left side of the gun breech is the PanTel (Panoramic Telescope) sight. It is the item with the circle (with a level bubble in teh middle of it) and a pole coming oup from the top with an angled head.



On the bottom of the PanTel is a small knob. This knob loosens and allows the sight to be removed, leaving just three mounting holes.



Note that these are all museum "gate guards" with the barrels painted over. Here are more shot of in-service ones with the bare metal barrel.






WOW!!! and Wow again! That had to be a wild ride. No doubt a charge seven. It doesn't look like much when your stand thirty or forty feet away and watching them shoot the pig, but the recoil is very violent. It will break your hand or arm if it contacts them. More than one person has died from being struck in the torso or head. The photo almost looks as if they've blown the recoil cylinders. Thus being staged! Blowing the recoil cylinders is not slightly funny, and can get everybody between the trails hurt.

I actually have an M1 parked about thirty minutes south of me, and I can take some photos of the shields and jack system whenever the weather clears up. Being on a 155 howitzer, I never have noticed a difference between a late and early with the shields. Yet I'm sure there is. I did shoot an early one at Sill, and the only real difference was the jack. Later there was a revamped breech system, but even that was internal.
gary
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is what needs to be left off for traveling config. On the left side of the gun breech is the PanTel (Panoramic Telescope) sight. It is the item with the circle (with a level bubble in teh middle of it) and a pole coming oup from the top with an angled head.

On the bottom of the PanTel is a small knob. This knob loosens and allows the sight to be removed, leaving just three mounting holes.

Note that these are all museum "gate guards" with the barrels painted over. Here are more shot of in-service ones with the bare metal barrel.




Think I'm okay. Haven't attached the PanTel, just have the mounting bracket assy on there right now. Would that need to be pryed off too or could it roll with the bracket on there?

From the in service pics it looks like Bronco gto it right on the tire difference between the M1A1 and the M114.
KurtLaughlin
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,401 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 04:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Chris,
When it first came out several years ago, I looked at this kit, but decided to pass since it looked more like the later M114 than the older M1-- the tires and wheels seemed like they were the later type as I recall. I was in the 9th DIVARTY in 1981-2, and we had the M114, which was towed by the M54. I hope you're right about an M5 being released, I'd also like to see a Mack NO, which could also be used I think.
VR, Russ



Bronco released two kits, a WW II and a postwar version. Thw wheels, among other things, were different.

KL
HeavyArty
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,689 posts
AeroScale: 1,728 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 05:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bronco released two kits, a WW II and a postwar version. Thw wheels, among other things, were different.
KL



Yup, the wheels, level jack, and travel locks are different on them.

WWII M1A1 155mm Howitzer


Vietnam M114A1 155mm Howitzer.



Quoted Text

Haven't attached the PanTel, just have the mounting bracket assy on there right now. Would that need to be pryed off too or could it roll with the bracket on there?



You could probably leave it on. It was usually removed to keep it from being damaged though.
PzAufkl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Germany
Joined: October 24, 2009
KitMaker: 104 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 07:19 PM UTC
Hi Chris,
in your photos, I don't see the breech locking cam (at 11 o'clock on the breech rear, in the "Vietnam Version" kit part #B33). Did you leave it off on purpose? Without it, the breech wouldn't lock properly because it needs the "kick" for the counter-clockwise rotation of the locking screw.
Peter
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,652 posts
AeroScale: 21 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 07:41 PM UTC
The poses for the artillery crew on the boxart for the Vietnam version (Gino's post above) reminds me of a Youtube video showing an artillery crew bouncing about at some artillery display in India (I think it was linked here on Armorama).

From the very little I have heard/read/seen about the war in Vietnam I find the poses a little hard to believe. The guy standing by the radio looks as if he has a steel rod up his backside ...

Indian army artillery demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pMSCv9-SU
/ Robin
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 07:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Chris,
in your photos, I don't see the breech locking cam (at 11 o'clock on the breech rear, in the "Vietnam Version" kit part #B33). Did you leave it off on purpose? Without it, the breech wouldn't lock properly because it needs the "kick" for the counter-clockwise rotation of the locking screw.
Peter



Good catch!!! Missed it the first go around. Same part number on this kit.

HeavyArty
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,689 posts
AeroScale: 1,728 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 08:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

From the very little I have heard/read/seen about the war in Vietnam I find the poses a little hard to believe. The guy standing by the radio looks as if he has a steel rod up his backside ...



The positions are correct, as each crewmember has a specific spot to occupy. The radioman does look a little formal, pretty much standing at attention. (Un)fortunately, the figures are not included in the kit. Too bad as there are not any good Vietnam artillery figures out there.

Actual Vietnam artillery crewmen on an M114A1.



trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,382 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 01:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The poses for the artillery crew on the boxart for the Vietnam version (Gino's post above) reminds me of a Youtube video showing an artillery crew bouncing about at some artillery display in India (I think it was linked here on Armorama).

From the very little I have heard/read/seen about the war in Vietnam I find the poses a little hard to believe. The guy standing by the radio looks as if he has a steel rod up his backside ...

Indian army artillery demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pMSCv9-SU
/ Robin



consider Bronco's box art to be fiction!

*An arty section used land line communications, and only FDC and the Chief of Smoke (he's God on the firing line) had radios. The Chief of Smoke rarely spoke on the radios, as that was FDC's job.
The reason why? Radios were often jammed, and don't think the other guy doesn't listen in on you.

* A left handed loader would become a serious problem for the AG! Virtually loaders were right handed to just give him some room to load (forget the stupid tray). The only people between the trails are the Gunner, Loader, AG, and the guy with rammer staff or swab. Everybody else is outside the trails.

* The AG would have been worn out after a one round zone sweep. Let alone the loader! They all look like they're five feet tall at best.

* had they had a radio that close to the Gunner, the concussion would have destroyed it in no time! They used a standard field phone land wired to the Chief Of Smoke's bunker. We could speak to FDC in a pinch, but maybe did it twice in 15 months. The Chief gives the order to fire the gun and nobody else counts! Well not unless your doing counter battery fire, and he'll just say fire at will.

gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,382 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 01:29 AM UTC
the first AG I was ever around in a combat unit would often open the breech with fire still inside. You never get in his way as he is the guy who really controls the shot. The loader and the AG must work together, and kinda develop an unspoken relations ship between the trails. The gunner will have somekind deal with the AG (our raised his right hand to his helmet). The guy on the rammer staff just wants to get out of the way. Hell stay near the guy on the phone. Powder is usually hander over to the loader by the section chief (well he had to do something!)

I was often tasked with being the Gunner and also the AG even though I usually loaded per the AG's request. Didn't really matter much. The real deal was giving the AG room to changer the primer in the firing lock. When I loaded the projo, I turned about 90 degrees and grabbed the end of the rammer staff and in one motion placed it on the base of the round. He pushed and I pulled at the sametime. As soon as the round seated I was handed the powder. When my hands went to my ears the AG knew I was ready for him.

A good combat unit could fire a one round zone sweep, and yell bore clear before the first round hit at near max range (roughly sixty seconds)

The guys in the photos shooting with flak jackets are probably doing counter battery fire, or nuts! More than one person lost his life due to a shirt or flak jacket hitting the firing lock.
gary
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 02:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

From the very little I have heard/read/seen about the war in Vietnam I find the poses a little hard to believe. The guy standing by the radio looks as if he has a steel rod up his backside ...



The positions are correct, as each crewmember has a specific spot to occupy. The radioman does look a little formal, pretty much standing at attention. (Un)fortunately, the figures are not included in the kit. Too bad as there are not any good Vietnam artillery figures out there.

Actual Vietnam artillery crewmen on an M114A1.






Great selection of pics. Maybe Bravo-6 will do some redlegs one of these days.
b2nhvi
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Nevada, United States
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 1,124 posts
AeroScale: 40 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 03:20 AM UTC
A thought on the polished metal with a coat of grease... Use a coat of Tamiya clear over the polished steel. I used clear yellow with a trace of clear blue (to get a slightly green tint) on some artillery shells that seemed to have a lacquered protective coating. I'd think maybe red and smoke would make a good brownish grease.
27-1025
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,273 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 03:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A thought on the polished metal with a coat of grease... Use a coat of Tamiya clear over the polished steel. I used clear yellow with a trace of clear blue (to get a slightly green tint) on some artillery shells that seemed to have a lacquered protective coating. I'd think maybe red and smoke would make a good brownish grease.



All those sound like ideas worth trying. Make up some scrap tubes and experiment a bit. The few era pics I've seen show the guns with some type (partial and full covers over the exposed barrel when in travel mode.
redleg12
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2007
KitMaker: 872 posts
AeroScale: 22 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 04:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

From the very little I have heard/read/seen about the war in Vietnam I find the poses a little hard to believe. The guy standing by the radio looks as if he has a steel rod up his backside ...



The positions are correct, as each crewmember has a specific spot to occupy. The radioman does look a little formal, pretty much standing at attention. (Un)fortunately, the figures are not included in the kit. Too bad as there are not any good Vietnam artillery figures out there.

Actual Vietnam artillery crewmen on an M114A1.






You have received a bunch of good information. Just as a note about the barrel, it is bare metal but would have a thin coat of gun grease. Look at the photos and you will see the coating.

You will also have a grease coating on the elevation and traverse gears.

Just some additional thoughts. Even though it is built to the M114 VN version you can see what I did with the barrel here

http://www.redleg2scale.com/model%20gallery/M114.html

Hope that helps

Rounds Complete!!