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Armor/AFV: Canadian Armor
Discuss all types of Canadian Armor of all eras.
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Rams
Grrdzilla
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 10, 2016
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Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 05:51 AM UTC
After an absence of many years due to health reasons I am really getting back into modeling and have started digging through all the stuff I have stored.
So Ram Tanks: I have the S Model, Resicast and Formations kits. I had the HK kit but gave to someone I didn't like, the S model Ram at least has some useable stuff in it.
The Resicast Kangaroo is, I think un-useable as the turret ring is so oversize that it distorts the shape of the hull, although general proportions do match the Formations OP kit fairly well.
Could I use the Formations turret on the Resicst hull reshape the drivers gun mg turret position and use the Formations kit for my Kangaroo and thus end up with 2 useable Rams.
Or should I try and get a couple of Ram hulls from Formations and junk everything else?

Gord
RLlockie
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United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 12:28 PM UTC
Do a search on ML for Paul Roberts's comments on the various Ram kits. He may have written about them here too.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 01:43 PM UTC
Picked this new conversion from Friendship Models at MAFVA Show St Ives.

a Full kit is also available in 1/48th.

Looks pretty good, and I discussed an OP version with the Vendor at the show...
Grrdzilla
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 - 09:38 PM UTC
Hi Jon,
To my eye the Friendship product looks like a knock off the Resicast Kangaroo and has the same problems.
The turret ring is just too large and distorts the entire hull shape. Now that I have been looking at these kits again I think the Resicast kit is a lost cause.

One other thing is that I don't think the Lee/Grant is an appropriate donor for a Kangaroo as most of the photos I have seen show the 'Roo suspension as having return rollers. And I think I read a review somewhere that the Academy kit sits too high.

Gord
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 02:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I had the HK kit but gave to someone I didn't like,

Boy, you really didn't like him, did you?


Quoted Text

the S model Ram at least has some useable stuff in it.


Not really. There's almost nothing usable in that kit.


Quoted Text

The Resicast Kangaroo is, I think un-useable as the turret ring is so oversize that it distorts the shape of the hull, although general proportions do match the Formations OP kit fairly well.


I think you're right. I've never had a Resicast kit, but from one I was allowed to handle, it did look too big. But you can check it yourself. The ID of the turret ring was 60" or 1.714" in 1/35 scale. The proportions of the rest of the features around the kit ring look pretty reasonabe.


Quoted Text

Could I use the Formations turret on the Resicst hull reshape the drivers gun mg turret position and use the Formations kit for my Kangaroo and thus end up with 2 useable Rams.


The Formations turret is really good, but it is an OP tank turret, meaning it is a very late production vehicle and has a few things specific to the OPs. If the Resicast Kangaroo hull has the aux turret, then the Formations main turret will need some backdating to match the configuration of the hull.

Also, in fitting the turret to the too large turret ring hole, the raised splash ring around the opening will be in the wrong place and really should be reduced in diameter. Essentially, you would want to reproduce all the features on the Resicast kit, but with the ID reduced to the scale 60".


Quoted Text

Or should I try and get a couple of Ram hulls from Formations and junk everything else?


Again, it depends on exactly what configuration of Ram you are looking to build. The Formations hulls, like the turrets are extremely late production, in fact they were the last Rams built. There are a LOT of differences between the various configurations, some big (like the suspension) and some small( like ventilators and pistol ports).

Exactly what are you looking to build?

HTH

Paul
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 02:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


One other thing is that I don't think the Lee/Grant is an appropriate donor for a Kangaroo as most of the photos I have seen show the 'Roo suspension as having return rollers. And I think I read a review somewhere that the Academy kit sits too high.


The Academy Grant/Lee hull is perfectly OK. The issue with sitting to high depends upon the suspension units in the kit you buy. Initial kits had one where the spring were too tall making the units sit about 2mm or .080" too high. Later kits had this corrected. I don't know how to tell the differences in the boxings, though. Push comes to shove, you can buy aftermarket bogie units.

As for the bogies, a bit more than half of all Ram IIs were built with the early bogie design. The rest had the "Sherman" trailing return roller design so the early M3 style are perfectly OK for Kangaroos as long as the overall configuration of the hull matches. Most hulls with the auxiliary turret had the M3 suspension and all of those with the bow gun had the M4 style (I think I got the split right, my books and papers are packed away for a move).

HTH

Paul
Cantstopbuyingkits
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European Union
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Posted: Thursday, July 21, 2016 - 11:16 AM UTC
Commander Models also did a Ram conversion with interior parts for Academy's M3 kit, is it any good?
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2016 - 11:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jon,
To my eye the Friendship product looks like a knock off the Resicast Kangaroo and has the same problems.
The turret ring is just too large and distorts the entire hull shape. Now that I have been looking at these kits again I think the Resicast kit is a lost cause.
Gord



I don't have the Resicast Kangaroo, but for your interest here is my WVC35001 Wee Vehicles Ram Kangaroo.







Internal Dia of the Turret ring is 46.46mm or 1.829"

Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 12:01 AM UTC
The turret ring of the full size Ram was 60 inches. So that turret ring is 1.5 times the correct diameter for 1/48 scale.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 12:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The turret ring of the full size Ram was 60 inches. So that turret ring is 1.5 times the correct diameter for 1/48 scale.



It's in 1/35th scale!

Although friendship do have a full kit in 1/48th, this isn't it a
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 01:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Internal Dia of the Turret ring is 46.46mm or 1.829"



That scales out to 64" - is that the diameter of the hole, or of the bolt-ring recessed into the hull? (And is the quoted 60" the hole inside the bolt ring, or the recess in the hull top?)

I too have this 1:35 Kangaroo conversion waiting its turn for a build - I'll be using a Tasca hull/suspension as I have one of their early Shermans spare in the stash...
Cantstopbuyingkits
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European Union
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Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 02:44 AM UTC
Jon, can you take a picture of your measurements from straight above? I can't see from the current angle if you measured just the hole or the full ring with retaining bolt circle in the second picture.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 06:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Internal Dia of the Turret ring is 46.46mm or 1.829"



That scales out to 64" - is that the diameter of the hole, or of the bolt-ring recessed into the hull? (And is the quoted 60" the hole inside the bolt ring, or the recess in the hull top?)

I too have this 1:35 Kangaroo conversion waiting its turn for a build - I'll be using a Tasca hull/suspension as I have one of their early Shermans spare in the stash...



My Measurements are across the hole inside the bolt ring, the 'flat'. This is averaged measurement, (N-S & E-W) +/- 00.01mm, in other words, it's very nearly completely circular, but not noticable to my tired eyes.

The caliper wouldn't stay in place for a pic.

NB, Ian from Friendship Models told me the instrument panel as shown is incorrect, but the kit includes another one.
Grrdzilla
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: July 10, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 10:58 PM UTC
Good to know and thanks Paul,
Of the Rams I want to build; the OP is one of my first choices and then it is either (or both) a Kangaroo and a Badger, both rather unique vehicles and more likely to have a lot of late features.
I always like to have a photo to work from. And that being said, based on the photos I have looked at the variants I want to build all have the trailing return roller suspension.
As far as the S Kit, it does have separate sponson doors which look OK as does the auxiliary mg turret (very Badgerish) and the I Block track and suspension looks good to me. But most of the purely Ram parts are useless. What do you think?
And yes the HK ram was given to annoying know it all.
It is good to know about the academy Lee suspension. What are the interior parts like. Does it have an interior at all?
I think it would be much easier to backdate a Formations kit than correct any of the others.