login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Techniques
From Weathering to making tent rolls, discuss it here.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Hit marks on armor question
Wolf239
_VISITCOMMUNITY
St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 136 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 30, 2016 - 11:03 PM UTC
Hello to all.

I need a little help please. My question is this. I am currently making Takom T-55AM for late Afghan war. It has rubber-fabric side skirts. I had an idea of showing them ripped in some places by 7.62 mm, 14.5 mm and (maybe) 23 mm mujahadeen MG fire, which generally would not penetrate the T-55 armor plating. My idea is to show a slightly damaged (not destroyed) tank, just to add more weathering effects and make the model more interesting. In this case, will there be any scratches on the steel armor and paint clearly visible? So, if I make damaged skirts, is it necessary to show damage to paint, too, and how will it look like? Or will a thick layer of dust/dirt I intend to make hide the paint damage on the armor? (I suggest dust/dirt cannot hide damage to the skirts, because its material will be deformed around the ruptures.)
TopSmith
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,741 posts
AeroScale: 14 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 08:33 AM UTC
I know you probably already have looked but have you google imaged T 55 Afghanistan? From my experiences scrached paint from rubbing against something is more common. 7.62 leaves only a very small hole in the sponson boxes. and only a small paint chip on the turret/hull.
Wolf239
_VISITCOMMUNITY
St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 136 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 04:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I know you probably already have looked but have you google imaged T 55 Afghanistan? From my experiences scrached paint from rubbing against something is more common. 7.62 leaves only a very small hole in the sponson boxes. and only a small paint chip on the turret/hull.



Thanks! Useful advice!

Google search (in both Russian and English) gives mainly low-res b/w Soviet pics. It impossible to spot small details (which I am seeking for) on these pics. I know a couple of Russian sites and forums on Afghan war with good pics, but unfortunately, there are not so many pics there, too (as compared to tons of info on Iraq war, for example). Color pics of the Soviet Afghan war almost do not exist at all. It was prohibited for Soviet reporters to show the real war, so the pics available now are mainly non-professional, shot by soldiers on amateur cameras and low quality b/w film. (In the Soviet Union, mainly b/w film was mass available.)
sdk10159
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Oregon, United States
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
AeroScale: 11 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 06:27 PM UTC
Don't limit the search to damaged T-55 or Afghan war. If you're looking for images of damaged armor, use everything. WWII, Korean War, Viet Nam, etc. You just want pics of what the damaged armor looks like.

Here, I googled images of damaged armored vehicles.

https://www.google.com/search?q=images+of+damaged+armored+vehicles&biw=1333&bih=661&tbm=isch&imgil=gaddaR6tigFJYM%253A%253BzsqeYnFkBJEkXM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Feconomictimes.indiatimes.com%25252Fslideshows%25252Fday-in-pics%25252Fjanuary-13-2014%25252Fa-yazidi-fighter-stands-on-a-damaged-iraqi-armored-vehicle%25252Fslideshow%25252F45863836.cms&source=iu&pf=m&fir=gaddaR6tigFJYM%253A%252CzsqeYnFkBJEkXM%252C_&usg=__ZWHiD5gdq7Lwpe3HsYIDx4tT1NQ%3D&ved=0ahUKEwis7ZDT8NTNAhVT3GMKHXp-BZ0QyjcINQ&ei=2cB3V-ycFNO4jwP6_JXoCQ#imgrc=GRI45dTwkNFk1M%3A



Steve
TopSmith
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,741 posts
AeroScale: 14 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 07:10 PM UTC
Use the Afgan pictures for color but use Desert Storm for damage photos. Maybe type in dammaged T 55 tanks into google image.
Wolf239
_VISITCOMMUNITY
St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 136 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 08:47 PM UTC
Thanks!

Iím using this link. http://www.guns.com/2013/10/30/armored-car-looks-like-mexican-cartel-hit/

It shows the result of massive fire on a Mexican security armored car hit by cartel (all passengers survived).

The vehicle was constructed by TPS Armoring of Mexico. http://eng.tps.com.mx/
TopSmith
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,741 posts
AeroScale: 14 posts
Posted: Friday, July 01, 2016 - 09:59 PM UTC
OK. From my experience I have never seen a tank with that many bullet holes/marks. Most people do not waste their time shooting at a tank with a rifle/assault rifle. I looked at a T62 with 5 bullet holes in a sponson box, one on the turret grab handle(the grab rails are hollow) and 4 or 5 bullet chip in the paint on the side of the turret. That was the most rifle marked one I saw. Now if you were to make it a practice range target, they are full of that kind of damage.
Wolf239
_VISITCOMMUNITY
St. Petersburg, Russia
Joined: September 05, 2015
KitMaker: 136 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 03:29 AM UTC
OK. Now I see it important not to interchange weathering and/or damage style between different vehicles. Since I already made the damage to the skirts, it was useful experience to try make bullet holes anyway. Now Iím gonna cut the skirts away, leaving the stamped steel submounts on hinges. Then I will have two options: leave them as they are or scratchbuild new skirts. Scratchbuilt skirts will be better than Takom kit parts because:

1. Takom skirts have thickness gradient Ė unrealistic.
2. Takom skirts have primitive curvature, which makes them toylike. (This was the starting reason I tried to modify them.) The real skirts are pretty twisted/bent in different planes. Using thick brass or aluminum foil will make them way more realistic.

So it is for the best anyway.

(Iím happy with the Takom kit #2041, and would highly recommend it. But the skirts are the only drawback that will also be highly noticeable on complete model.)
TopSmith
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,741 posts
AeroScale: 14 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 02, 2016 - 04:21 AM UTC
Could you heat them in hot water and warp them by hand? you could clamp two metal rulers along both sides of the top edge so it would stay straight and warp the lower portions. Just a thought.