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Armor/AFV: Techniques
From Weathering to making tent rolls, discuss it here.
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first resin/PE model - adhesives question
jantkowiak
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 02:01 AM UTC
Hi, all. It's been a few years since I posted anything here. Had to have some time off from the hobby. But I've been looking through some of the previous threads regarding resin. They help somewhat but I don't see my particular concerns addressed anywhere.

My model is LZ's M29 Weasel in 1:35. Does anyone have any experience with their resin specifically?

The only resin project I ever completed was a figure kit, just in time to bring to a hobby show one February. About a 6-hour drive home to Northern VA, and when I stepped out of the car, the change in temperature caused everything to absolutely explode off the marble base it was CA'd to. Yet another ton of award-winning work I'm unable to show anyone, and I'm afraid to trust CA again.

I gather a lot of folks like Gator Glue - but it's not clear to me, whether that's the same as Gator's Grip glue. It's also not clear if I should be able to find it at a hardware store or only online (both my LCHs just closed, leaving a total vacuum in central NC )

But, if Loctite is just as reliable as anything else, I guess I'll stick with it. (I also have some experience with Tamiya 2-part epoxy putty and 5-minute epoxy, and a ready supply of both.) But the other thing the other threads don't explicitly say include:

Do people recommend CA for resin-to-resin equally as resin-to-PE and PE-to-PE and resin-to-styrene? My driver is styrene, among other bits, and I'd like him to remain seated with all arms and hands inside the vehicle at all times too.

Oh - another question I haven't found yet... is it recommended to wash the sprues before starting work? I've done that a couple of times with styrene kits, but I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference. Does it involve anything other than soaking the sprues in cold dish-soap water? Because they're extremely fragile and don't appear capable of withstanding anything more vigorous... I have access to a sonic cleaner too, which I might try without soap. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for any input

John A.
russamotto
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Utah, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 02:23 AM UTC
I don't know about gator glue, but I use normal CA glue-an odorless and also Gorilla Glue, which has some flexibility to it (more than with normal CA glue). You can use it to bond plastic to resin or photoetch, resin to resin, and etch to resin. Loctite would probably work fine and comes in thick, normal and thin, so you can vary your drying times.

I have had some resin parts that needed cleaning to remove mold release agent. For very delicate parts, you can use a spray bottle with some gentle dishwashing detergent. Just something that will easily cut through grease. Set the parts in a strainer and spray them down well, and then a gentle rinse and air drying. Others may have better suggestions than this.
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 04:14 AM UTC
John: If I may share a different perspective. I consider myself pretty experienced and have worked with resin and PE for many years. The LZ Models M29 Weasel is a kit I started but put down b/c it's super complex and fiddly. I knew it would be a challenge and for me, I need to have the right amount of momentum and stamina to get into a project. Perhaps put that aside and handle some other resin conversions or something? That's a TOUGH first resin kit. It's tough for me and I've done many! If you still want to go ahead, by all means. Just a friendly suggestion.
duckdawgs
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California, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 07:21 AM UTC
John, I also built the M29 Weasel. I also agree with Roy that the LZ kit of the Weasel is very complex, lots of tiny fiddly pieces, references and a watchmakers skill are required to complete this kit. As far as CA is concerned, I used the Zap brand range, medium and thin viscosities to build this kit. A small simple Verlinden vehicle would be good practice. For example their tractors, forklifts, ammo & water trailer kits come to mind. You could put the ammo/water trailer behind the Weasel when you get around to finishing it... Good luck...p.s. yes, you should wash the resin pieces of the mold release agents...
jantkowiak
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 09:20 AM UTC
Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. Just my luck to have chosen such a challenging kit to start off with. Unfortunately the project is absolutely critical to my master's thesis and there's precious little money for a practice kit. I appreciate the suggestion though, and I'll keep my eyes open for something to warm up to it. But frankly I don't have time to start, say, a vehicle conversion that would give me a better feel for the task at hand. It's part of a very specific historical situation that doesn't allow leeway for trailers or miscellaneous stowage gear, so anything I might choose will be totally unrelated. I've been doing metal and plastic figures, and plastic kits, for 30+ years now and I'm guite comfortable taking this on. I've already collected quite an array of references as I initially assumed I'd be scratchbuilding it; I'm just hoping to benefit from some of your experience.

For example, Roy: how has the CA held up over all your years? Have you ever seen anything like the disaster I had? Maybe it was a function of the marble (rather than the CA) contracting in the cold. Maybe my mistrust is because I don't grasp the chemistry of the bond the way I get plastic cement. I just know CA has notoriously weak shear strength and I'm wondering if it's reliable for more than the short term. That explosion was traumatic! lol

Also I was really wondering more how and not whether to clean it, but I see my phrasing was careless on that point. I apologize. Is soaking sufficient to clean the agent, or do I need to brush or wipe it down? Russ, your spraying technique implies more of a misting than relying on the impact of the spray to wash it off. If that's true, it seems just as effective to submerge it in a tray. And will the runoff or the water become cloudy or in any way indicative of having the desired effect?

Thanks again!

John A


...oops.. and I just noticed my original post misspells LHSs, for Local Hobby Stores. Yup... I did say "master's" degree lol
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 04:12 PM UTC
John,

The two glue companies are different. To my knowledge you can only get gator grip glue online, a few places beside going direct is possible. I have only used it for PE to plastic and not used it on resin at all. It is slow drying like elmers glue, so if you have parts under tension you need a jig of sometype to hold them in place.

Would like to hear more about your thesis needing a weasel, sounds interesting.
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 06:37 PM UTC
I've never had a situation where CA bonds broke on their own. I have some 20yr old projects that are still holding up well. I'm sure yours can be attributed to expansion of the underlying material.

If in a pinch, there's the old Monogram M29C Weasel kit. Very simple to do. Certainly not a show stopper but it may fill the need for your thesis demo (?). It was last reboxed in 1994 but I'm sure can be found via ebay. I just checked and there's one for $5.99 right now. Looking at the "completed" auctions, it should go for the $15-$30 range.

Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 10:12 PM UTC
Also where in NC are you? There are many hobby shops in the state.
jantkowiak
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 02:20 AM UTC
Thanks, Roy. Now one of my most important concerns is answered - that my accident is not likely a testament to the unreliability of CA. That's a big relief.

I started with the Monogram kit, but it's a lot harder to convert an M29C to an M29 than the other way around. By the time you remove the flotation tanks and aprons, you're pretty much looking at a total scratchbuild. That's why I started collecting reference photos and the technical manual.

I'll be doing some interesting modifications, though, as soon as I figure out how the Ordnance Department fitted the Weasel with deep wading gear for Operation Neptune. All vehicles were, if they came ashore from the smaller landing craft. I know it seems crazy, going to such lengths to make an amphibious vehicle not amphibious so it can join an amphibious assault! But it's just not possible to fit an M29C onto the deck of an LCM(3) and still have room for 30+ men. And yet that's what the command boat for the Special Engineer Task Force on Omaha Beach (west) carried.

Ultimately what I'm producing will be an independent, online museum exhibit about the SETF. My thesis is only part of that project; I'm trying to complete a degree in Public History specializing in American military history and museum studies. The exact question addressed by the paper is subject to change based on what the museum literature says about historical dioramas, which have fallen out of favor despite their popularity with visitors. Thanks for asking, Ryan.

As to your other question, I'm in Mebane, between Durham and Burlington on I-40. There are a couple of train shops and an RC shop that I know of between Greensboro and Raleigh, but none of them are useful to me. There's still a Hobbytown USA in Fayetteville, but that's a good 90 minute drive at least. The ones in Apex and Greensboro just closed. Otherwise there's nothing but the big-box craft store chains.

Roy, can you tell me anything else about cleaning methods? How did you go about it for your Weasel, presuming you got that far? If not, how would you do it?

All input is much appreciated

John A
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 03:17 AM UTC
John,

This might help for shops.

http://ipmseaglesquadron.org/hobbyshops/
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 08:09 AM UTC
John: I only washed it with dish detergent like I do with my styrene kits. Nothing more. I'm a stickler for detail and accuracy. I realized that I didn't like the oversized buttons on the upper rail fairing and was determined to redo the whole thing in styrene. But I lost steam and have only some small assemblies finished.

The one item you might want to switch out is LZ's peculiar "lamp". It should be a small blackout light instead.
jantkowiak
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 05:47 PM UTC
Thanks, Ryan - it looks like there might be one winner on that list after all. The rest are either closed or not invested in military kits or too far away, but I only need one. That's awesome

I noticed the oversized bits too, Roy, and I think I can get around it. I suspect the canvas top would've been up and sealed against water. I wish I'd asked the veterans when I attended one of their last reunions years back, if anyone recalled helping get it ready for the operation. Their Weasel was full of radio gear and it fascinates me how it fared when it rolled off the LCM and into the runnel. The Ordnance folks made enormous efforts to waterproof everything, but the Weasel's canvas just wasn't designed for that - it was supposed to float! But it made it ashore somehow; I'll see if I can attach this image successfully. It was taken only days later. Other pictures from this series show the men still wearing their gas masks.

Oh - but back to the model... my main concern with washing it is the extreme fragility of the parts. Some of them are so thin they're translucent, as you know. Resin is incredibly brittle; frankly I'm amazed it's become such a popular medium. Did you use an old toothbrush or anything to wash them, or will soaking suffice? I'd like not to break anything before I even start...

Cheers

John A.


Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 06:38 PM UTC
We have a club dinner this Monday night in Raleigh, anybody can attend. Never know who is going to show up but a couple of the regulars do work with resin and can give you some advise. Additionally you could attend the 3rd Sunday in Fuquay and ask the club as a whole.

http://ipmseaglesquadron.org/meetings/

Best of luck.
ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2016 - 09:02 PM UTC
I don't scrub. I've never encountered a resin kit with that much gunk that needed scrubbing. I simply soak it in warm (not hot) water with Dawn dish detergent. After a few minutes, I rinse with some cold water and I'm good.

Depending on how much handling and sanding of the model, I may do a quick rinse again before painting. Hope this helps
jantkowiak
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 11:18 PM UTC
Ok, Roy - thanks so much for all your suggestions. Ryan, check your inbox for a pm.

Have a great day, all~

John A
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 - 01:40 AM UTC
Replied back.