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Ships by Class/Type: Destroyers
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Dragon Gearing Class Odyssey
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 - 08:30 PM UTC
Another question to the experts. Can anybody educate me as to the name and function of the small parts on each side of the stern (circled in green in the image below)? Also, does anybody have a good image of where they are attached? The instructions are vague with no locating marks or angles, and in the colour scheme drawings they are shown on an angle to the horizontal, but it is not clear on the actual orientation of the part.


In the model below they are installed horizontal and flush with deck level, and to me it looks like they are there to make sure the depth charges clear the stern as they roll out.


In the colour callout sheets from the kits they appear to be installed at an angle to the deck.

Heeeeeeeeelp???????


Cheers, D
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 01:59 AM UTC
They are propeller guards, and their purpose is to insure that the screws are not fouled. The model shows them correctly positioned.

Frank Knox carried measure 33 when she was commissioned.

As to the other I don't know but will find out. Watch this space.

The following Gearing Class DD's carried Measure 21. Most of them that carried this measure were shipyard carrying out Navy instructions that were overcome by the events of the war ending. Some of these commissioned in 46 yet retained the wartime measure when the Navy accepted the ship into service.

Frank Knox 742, Southerland 743, Rowan 782, Gurke 783, McKean 784, Henderson 785, Richard B. Anderson 786. James E, Keyes 787, Hollister 788, Eversole 789, Chevalier 805,Higbee 806, Benner 807, Dennis J. Buckley 808, New 818, Holder 819, Johnston 821, Samuel B. Roberts 824, Power 839, Bausell 845, Ozbourn 846, Robert L. Wilson 847, Richard E. Kraus 849, Leonard F. Mason 852, Fred T. Berry 858, Norris 859, McCaffery 860, Harwood 861, Cone 866, Brownson 868, Arnold J. Isbell 869, Damato 871, Hawkins 873, Perkins 877, Vesole 878, Leary 879, Dyess 880, Bordelon 881, Furse 882, Newman K. Perry 883, Orleck 886, Brinkley Bass 887, Stickell 888, O'Hare 889, Meredith 890

Now back to Measure 22. I am afraid I cannot help you on the substitution of Navy Gray for Navy Blue in this measure per the 1945 instructions, Don't think anyone else can either. It seems that the Navy was running out of blue pigment in 1945. Instructions said to use up existing stocks of Navy Blue then switch over to Navy Gray. That is the short and dirty narration of it. I have never quite bought that story, because it seems that someone had enough in stock to paint all those DD's listed above in Navy Blue.

Anyway, the photos that are available are mostly in black and white, and it is near impossible to tell the difference between the Navy Blue and Navy Gray. If you were to ask me which one would be the safer bet for Measure 21, I would say go with the Blue


AussieReg
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 03:04 AM UTC
Thanks so much Chuck, your advice is invaluable and I hope you stick around for the rest of my odyssey here, as you can see I need all the help I can get!

I have been getting my information from "shipcamouflage.com" with the ship/measure information HERE and the colour details for each Measure HERE. In saying that, I have picked up a discrepancy in the site where the same colour image of the USS Drayton is listed in 2 places with 2 different Measures, so no site is perfect!

I will keep working on the kit and researching colours before I hit them with any paint, but the all blue MS 21 is slightly ahead for me at this point.

Many thanks once again.

Cheers, D
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 03:26 AM UTC
That's where I go too, but then I verify with other sources, Navsource is a good on line resource for photos. Neither are perfect.

I will say one more thing about Frank Knox, one of my personal favorite DD's. She was commissioned in Measure 33, and you will note from the pictures available that she carried single 20mm's and two banks of tubes. Don't know if Dragon gives you the option for two banks of tubes. and or the DDR tripod.
RedDuster
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 06:47 AM UTC
Coming apace now Damian,
looking great.

Cheers

Si
RussellE
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 09:15 AM UTC
I reckon parts MA45/47 are actually supports for the depth charge racks. I suggest they should be flush to the deck and parallel and inline to the depth charge racks so you can mount them to them...

of course I could be wrong
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 11:55 AM UTC
Russell: The prop guards as far as I know have nothing to do with depth charges. They are more concerned with cables interfering with the screws. They are fitted in the right place and at the right height off the waterline in the picture Damian posted. Most American warships cruisers and below had them fitted.

Depth charges on American destroyers and some of the cruisers that had them drop off the stern when the ship is in motion. Therefore there is no chance they will interfere with the screws. Other depth charges were shot off of the ship via K guns mounted on both the port and starboard flanks of the ship. Being "shot from a cannon" so to speak they too presented no danger to the screws.

German and Japanese destroyers had similar prop guards mounted. Not sure about the RN. I have never seen them, but to tell the truth I have never looked either.

We continue the practice of installing them to this day. They are relatively thin and don't show up much on a distance shot of the ship, but close ups of the stern area of our latest, The Burkes, show them in the same place as found on the Gearing. Their location varies a bit from class to class, but most seem to be mounted about half way between deck and water line, and the half moon shape guard (not the supports) is horizontal.
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 02:00 PM UTC
Hi Chuck.

I think you might be looking at the wrong part. I am talking about the small triangle-shaped part that is shown on the build model image tucked up underneath the depth charge rails. I have circled it in green in this image.


Looking very closely at the stern image of the Frank Knox from the instruction sheet, I can see where they fit now and the angle of the fold (again circled in green here). I couldn't see this on the Gearing instructions because of the darker paint.


I would still like to see an actual photo of this part of the ship, so the search continues.

Problem solved, knowledge gained, all is good!

Cheers, D
Quincannon
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 03:18 PM UTC
I sure was looking at the wrong thing. Russell mention the MA parts numbers and I knew Dragon has MA designations for their etch, and that the prop guards were etched parts. See what assuming does.

I do not have a clue as to what they are. I am now as anxious as you to find out the answer.

Meanwhile you drive on with the three Gearings, and I will be following.
RussellE
#306
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 03:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Russell: The prop guards as far as I know have nothing to do with depth charges. They are more concerned with cables interfering with the screws. They are fitted in the right place and at the right height off the waterline in the picture Damian posted. Most American warships cruisers and below had them fitted.

Depth charges on American destroyers and some of the cruisers that had them drop off the stern when the ship is in motion. Therefore there is no chance they will interfere with the screws. Other depth charges were shot off of the ship via K guns mounted on both the port and starboard flanks of the ship. Being "shot from a cannon" so to speak they too presented no danger to the screws.

German and Japanese destroyers had similar prop guards mounted. Not sure about the RN. I have never seen them, but to tell the truth I have never looked either.

We continue the practice of installing them to this day. They are relatively thin and don't show up much on a distance shot of the ship, but close ups of the stern area of our latest, The Burkes, show them in the same place as found on the Gearing. Their location varies a bit from class to class, but most seem to be mounted about half way between deck and water line, and the half moon shape guard (not the supports) is horizontal.



Hi Chuck, I think you are mistaking the prop guards, parts MA25, for the parts Damian is having trouble with, parts MA45/47


Quoted Text

Hi Chuck.

I think you might be looking at the wrong part. I am talking about the small triangle-shaped part that is shown on the build model image tucked up underneath the depth charge rails.

Looking very closely at the stern image of the Frank Knox from the instruction sheet, I can see where they fit now and the angle of the fold (again circled in green here). I couldn't see this on the Gearing instructions because of the darker paint.

I would still like to see an actual photo of this part of the ship, so the search continues.

Problem solved, knowledge gained, all is good!

Cheers, D



Thusly explained


Quoted Text

I sure was looking at the wrong thing. Russell mention the MA parts numbers and I knew Dragon has MA designations for their etch, and that the prop guards were etched parts. See what assuming does.

I do not have a clue as to what they are. I am now as anxious as you to find out the answer.

Meanwhile you drive on with the three Gearings, and I will be following.



I still stand by my earlier assumption that MA45/47 are supports for the depth charge racks
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 04:38 PM UTC



Quincannon
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Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 02:19 AM UTC
Looking at that stern shot of DD 593 I would fully agree they are supports for the depth charge racks.

I really do feel dumb. I looked at that photo of the instruction sheet, and this feeble old mind of mine translated MA45 to MA25, the prop guards. Accuracy in observation is a military virtue, and I just flunked.
RussellE
#306
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Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 01:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looking at that stern shot of DD 593 I would fully agree they are supports for the depth charge racks.

I really do feel dumb. I looked at that photo of the instruction sheet, and this feeble old mind of mine translated MA45 to MA25, the prop guards. Accuracy in observation is a military virtue, and I just flunked.



don't worry Chuck, we've all been there and done that
md72
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Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 03:58 PM UTC
Wow D. Glad to see you back at it. Where to you find the time?
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 04:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow D. Glad to see you back at it. Where to you find the time?



G'day Mark. Thanks for checking in, good to have you on board. Basically, I don't sleep much

Cheers, D
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2019 - 12:33 PM UTC
Darth Gearing !!

Primer is on. Mr Surfacer 1500 Black cut with about 60% MLT, shot at about 20psi through a 0.25 tip.





I went with black primer for a number of reasons.
1. This stuff is silky smooth and tough as nails so I can just mask it off for the boot topping.
2. Contrast with the grey kit parts so I know I've primed everywhere.
3. Contrast with the Haze Grey so I know I've painted all of the vertical surfaces.
4. If I'm careful with my Haze Grey application this will allow me to create depth with recessed and shadowed areas.

I'm really happy to have taken the next step with this build, enjoying my first nautical adventure here.

Cheers, D
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2019 - 01:24 AM UTC
Appealing again to the brains trust here, I'm still looking for a reasonable formula for Haze Grey. I have been doing some reading and there seems to be equal liking for Tamiya XF-19 and XF-83, but also a few comments that neither of these is "blue" enough.

Below are the greys and blue-greys that I have at hand, does anybody here have an opinion on which would be best, or a possible mix to get closer? At present I am thinking of using XF-19 with a drop of XF-18



Cheers, D
Quincannon
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2019 - 03:49 AM UTC
Damien: The rub is that there are two Haze Grays. One was used during the war and the other came in in the 1950's AK Interactive, and Color Coats makes both of them, and the only difference I can detect is one, the post war version, contains some blueish tint.

Were it me with your problem, I would use the XF19 Sky Gray, then let your Navy Blue lower portion of the hull take over from there. Paint is so fragile, in that the only day that it is right and meets manufactures standards is the day it is applied.

Take some scrap plastic. Apply your chosen Navy Blue and the XF19, in the same manner as on the hull of the ship. If it looks good to you, who is to say it is not Haze Gray.

A few years ago I built the Meng Lexington and painted her as she was in the Summer of 41. I used Tamiya Navy Blue AS8 straight out of the spray can, then XF19 for the remainder of the hull and superstructure. Then Dullcoat. I was quite pleased, and for me that is rare when viewing my own work
md72
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2019 - 04:00 AM UTC
Honestly D, my first thoughts went to White Ensign Models Colourcoats. Unfortunately they don't exist anymore. Now it's Colourcoats I think their in the US. But they'll be glad to price your order in Australian Dollars.
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 02:40 PM UTC
Thanks for the insight Chuck, XF-19 it is! I looked at a few online builds with different paint colours, and they all look good, and all look different in different light as well.

Ok, I think my cunning plan is working. I masked off about 2mm for the boot topping, then on went the XF-19. By having a black primer, and using highly thinned XF-19, I was able to "sneak up" on the depth of colour I want and by varying the application I have left some areas a bit darker and the more recessed places look good to me. The curse of the digital image is the sloppy glue application and lack of attention to parts clean-up. Off to the brig with me








Masking and painting the Sea Blue hull next.

Cheers, D
d6mst0
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Posted: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 - 11:17 PM UTC
Damian,

Nice work on laying the paint. Looks nice and even.

Mark
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 01:33 PM UTC
Thanks for the feedback Mark, much appreciated.

Hoping to get the Sea Blue and Deck Blue down on these assemblies this weekend.

Cheers, D
RussellE
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Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 02:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the insight Chuck, XF-19 it is! I looked at a few online builds with different paint colours, and they all look good, and all look different in different light as well.

Ok, I think my cunning plan is working. I masked off about 2mm for the boot topping, then on went the XF-19. By having a black primer, and using highly thinned XF-19, I was able to "sneak up" on the depth of colour I want and by varying the application I have left some areas a bit darker and the more recessed places look good to me. The curse of the digital image is the sloppy glue application and lack of attention to parts clean-up. Off to the brig with me


Masking and painting the Sea Blue hull next.

Cheers, D



That'll be 9 lashes & no rum rations for you D

Seriously though, looking very nice!

Onwards & upwards!
AussieReg
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#007
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Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 02:58 PM UTC


Thanks Russ