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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
How to Model a T-10
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 06:03 AM UTC
I wanted to put this up as a reference on the T-10.
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 06:05 AM UTC
First up, something I have been spreading across the interwebs to help clear up a bit of confusion:

Ok guys, here is the skinny:

Chelyabinsk and Kirov were both tasked to build the T-10. BOTH thought they had a better design than the other. So Chelyabinsk built their Obj. 734 and Kirov built their Obj. 272. Production started in 1953 and production/parts were different enough between the two factories that MOST parts were not interchangeable between tanks produced from the other factory.

Now there were 4 variants of the T-10. T-10 (1953 production start), T-10A (1956), T-10B (1957), and T-10M (also 1957). In 1962 (!) the Kirov design (Obj. 272) in its T-10M configuration became standardized. So there are, essentially, 8 different versions of the T-10. There are, most likely, 3 versions of the T-10M: Chelyabinsk (early), Kirov (early), and Kirov (late/post 1962).

Now, add in that there is not a lot of ACCURATE information, or blueprints that are agreed on, or even specific Blueprints for each build at each factory, and you have...a mess.

The best source of information, at the moment, is the book Бронеколлекция. 2009 №4. Тяжелый танк Т-10 . I am trying to have the information in it verified.

I hope this helps with the confusion.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Posted: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 07:13 AM UTC
Great start to this post Jacques.

Clearly shows the huge difficulties to discuss about accuracy, referring to this particular tank -and other USSR's ones too-
I guess it should be also hard to point out distinctive features of each factory.
ScottLind
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 07, 2015 - 07:43 PM UTC
Just obtained Trumpeter version of this beast. I'm debating waiting till I get Meng's kit before starting. No disrespect to Commanders but this seems like a definite upgrade based on the references and plans I have accumulated. The book Jacques mentioned is very good as is Steven Zaloga's IS2 book and Soviet/Russian Armor and Artillery Design Practices 1945 to Present. Ground Power #10 is a goldmine also.
This post was removed.
phantom8747
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2015 - 05:53 PM UTC
I have both kits and noticed some differences in the front glacis plate layout of the lights right and left side.Does Meng represent a different model than trumpeters.I like the Trumpeter track better than Mengs pin each track together method.Don't like the tiny bendy pins or the jig.
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 16, 2015 - 11:03 PM UTC
The acknowledgments on Trumpeter's T-10M kit mention working with Chelyabinsk. I think it is safe to say the Trumpeter kit is the Chelyabinsk T-10M (Obj 734) BEFORE standardization.
phantom8747
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 - 06:18 PM UTC
I am working on the Trumpeter now to catch up to where I am on the Meng.Meng definitely has more details but I like the ease of assembly with the Trumpeter.
Dzhaks
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Voronezh, Russia
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Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 01:07 PM UTC
IMHO, the greatest model of T-10M, whic can be used as walkaround. 1:35, manufactured by "Navigator":

http://www.dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=11531
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 04:40 AM UTC
Evgeny, I have the Navigator kit, as well as the Commander's Models kit, and the Trumpeter kit. While the Navigator kit certainly looks accurate, it is a kit for the advanced modeler. My kit had poor casting, some rough detail in spots, and severe warpage that resists hot water, hot air, and stress to fix it. I am sure that with enough time it could be made into just as wonderful a kit as the one you linked to, but both Meng and Trumpeter kits are a LOT easier to build. Just wanted to make sure people understand that, at least in my opinion, the Navigator kit is not the pinnacle. Commanders Models kit is...poor. Especially for the money I paid for it.
Dzhaks
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Voronezh, Russia
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Posted: Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 10:31 AM UTC
Yes, I know about Navigator kit. That T-10M I showed only for example of a good model. I read about it's building: it was really hard and looked like my building of SS-15 now.

And about Comander's models I hear the first time, did not know about it earlier.

Thanks to chineese who made these kits.
ceerosvk
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Slovakia
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 06:21 PM UTC
According to this site
http://www.track-link.com/forums/modelling_kits/16396

One of the kit's obviously has incorrect dimensions. The Trumpeter kit seems to be larger in every aspect, wider, longer, even the track size differs. Shape-wise they both appear to be correct and yes, i am aware of the fact that both most likely represent a different variant of T10M but i doubt that the actual dimensions of various types like lenght or width would differ.

Anyone got some more info on this? Anyone owns both kits? I have been tilted a bit more towards the meng one, because i have built their kits before and overall i found the casting/details quality a little bit more appealing than usual trumpeter, but nowadays new models are everything but cheap and i want my money to be invested wisely. The differences are not that vast, but still i definitely dont want to invest in an incorrectly dimensed model.
barrowb98
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 07:17 PM UTC
This is the one thing that jumped out at me (I have the Meng kit). Don't know if Meng is wrong or if it's a factory difference. Trumpeter has this sheet metal piece from the stowage boxes, Meng has it as armor plate. Also Trumpeter has the cut edge & weld facing the front, Meng has it on the side.


PzDave
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United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:52 PM UTC
Great research. Thanks for sharing. The T-10 is probably the most "beastly" looking tank of all time. Just my opinion.
cesar
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Santander, Spain / España
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 11:10 PM UTC
The weld line in the Trumpeter kit is indeed correct and the torch cut is on the side, as in the Meng kit. So one poin each.

The T-10, as the IS-3 before, has kind of a boat shaped hull, where the sides slope inwards from top, so that´s the reason of the sheet metal plate and weld in the nose: the sponsons weren´t part of the hull. See these photos (the schematics and Adam´s model are in fact IS-3s, but the basic hull shape is the same).







Hope this helps,

César
jasegreene
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 11:12 PM UTC
Does anybody know if South Ossetia ever used any T-10s?It just sounds too far fetched what Wikipedia says.
barrowb98
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 11:21 PM UTC
Thanks, Cesar, that cleared it up. i think I can add some sheet styrene or maybe even just mask and some primer or putty to replicate it.
cesar
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Santander, Spain / España
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 11:40 PM UTC
Hi Brett,

I think that adding the weld line and sanding the rolled metal texture would be enough, as the sheet metal plate is more or less flush with the glacis. I like to use a piece of stretched sprue for welds like these and then texture it with liquid glue and an old hobby knife with a broken tip.

Regards,
César
Bizarre
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
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Akershus, Norway
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 11:49 PM UTC
Masterclub made a set of tracks for T-10. I will get them and make a review for Armorama.
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Friday, November 20, 2015 - 09:02 AM UTC
Neil Stokes and I have been going over the T-10M kits, he has both and I have the Trumpeter kit. We are using drawings from M-Hobby as reference for our major dimensions. Both tank kits match up well to the drawings.

Also, it seems the Trumpeter kit is based on the Chelyabinsk version and the Meng kit is based on the Kirov version. That means they could have different exterior details and still be correct. There is a LOT of work left to be done to explain the tank series, let alone offer a guide to build a correct version.