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Ships by Class/Type: Frigates
This is for topics on modern Frigates. For the sailing variety they should still go under Sailing.
Hosted by Todd Michalak
1/350 Academy FFG-57 Build
s4usea
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Posted: Monday, January 19, 2015 - 06:59 PM UTC
The Mk 92 FCS is actually a software system that, at the time, integrated two inputs: radar and and optical with the weapons, and the platforms are for the optical inputs.

I spoke to my father last night, (former CO of two warships in the 80's, and his first XO went on to Command Vandergrift) and he couldn't remember the MK/Mod of them, but said they were for the TDT's or "Target Designation Trackers."

He also said they weren't used much.

They were replaced at some point by the STIR radar system.
JJ1973
#345
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 10:39 AM UTC
Scott, that sounds right from what I could find out - I checked my old pictures (around 2001) and documents yesterday out of curiosity, I could not recall these particular platforms on 0-3. I found a few pics with the platforms on, but always covered with canvas, and after a refit before deploying the platforms were gone entirely, .50 cals mounted a little forward of where they had been. Never saw them used, can't say what they were good for, but your explanation makes sense - however, can't recall any FFG 7 pic without STIR, though, even in the early years??
One thing is for sure - there were no binoculars on those platforms on 0-3.

Jan
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 02:37 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

It appears that these systems had multiple inputs. Whatever the device on those little platforms is, it is almost always covered by a tarp. I did find two not very good photos of it. I think I'm going to move on but it has been interesting learning about this.





Thanks,
Bryan
s4usea
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United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - 05:37 PM UTC
Your pics look about right as my father said they looked like a pair of binocs with a computer on them...

It's a point of interest to me as I'm building a model of a Belknap Cruiser, and they also had them on the O2 deck, but I can't find a pic.
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - 02:02 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

Continuing our discussion of the MK92 guidance system, the latest progress:





Thanks for looking,
Bryan
RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:23 AM UTC
Hi Bryan,

Great progress, following with interest.

Si
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Friday, January 23, 2015 - 07:53 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

Hey everyone, we have moved to the new Frigates page (courtesy of Michael) for those who love these smaller ships. Frigate defined: In modern navies, frigates are used to protect other warships and merchant-marine ships, especially as anti-submarine warfare (ASW) combatants for amphibious expeditionary forces, underway replenishment groups, and merchant convoys.

Some progress updates

First the auxiliary stack, not a lot of extras here, pretty accurate out of the box:


Second, going stir crazy with the STIR(Separate Target Illumination Radar) which is used in conjunction with the MK 92 missile guidance system (the egg shaped radar on the roof of the pilot house).

Real Life STIR illustration along with the "egg" antenna:


Kit vesion:


and my solution after about 10,000 bits of plastic:




Thanks for looking in,
Frigates Represent!

Bryan


RedDuster
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2015 - 02:01 AM UTC
Great job on the Radar Bryan, the additional detail really lifts it.

Si
Cosimodo
#335
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2015 - 04:23 PM UTC
Hi Bryan,
this is a great build, I am sorry I didn't look in before. You have added a fantastic amount of detail so far.
I will have to go away and read about FFGs so I can appreciate the effort.

cheers
Michael
TRM5150
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2015 - 06:07 PM UTC
Fine work Bryan!! Clean build and loving the added detailing!!
JJ1973
#345
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Monday, January 26, 2015 - 12:16 AM UTC
Bryan,

that's some really inspiring work, I am amazed what you scratch build beyond the offered PE sets.

Even though they maybe weren't the most handsome ships ever designed I do have a particular weak spot for the 'figs' , and you are doing USS Reuben James (FFG 57) justice! Your attention to detail and struggle to get it right is fantastic!

Cheers,
Jan
trahe
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - 10:06 PM UTC
All I can say is Wow! All that extra detail is going to make for one extremely well done ship! You have incredible skills and patience, sir!
shinner
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 03:53 PM UTC
Bryan, on Royal Australian Navy FFG-7's those platforms that you are referring to are used by sailors to visually track targets and pass down real time information to the ops room or CIC in the USN to correlate the picture that the warfare officers have to the real world. eg. a plane flying in on a simulated attack is tracked by radar and also visually and they can then verify both tracks and calibrate weapon systems from the info gathered. Basically a pair of binos on each stand with radio equipment to go to the ops room. Gunnery and small arms can also be directed from there. I will post some pics of RAN FFG's if you like so you can get a good idea of what I am talking about. I served on 3 FFG's good ships and the RAN ones except the last 2 were built in the USA and to USN specs just about. You are doing a very fine model of one.
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - 07:40 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

First of all thanks to everyone for their great comments and hello to people who have just joined. Its fun building with everyone and it makes watching your builds on the website that much better.

I have two confessions, first, this is my first ship model. I had experience with armor and aircraft but was afraid to try a ship because I find them overwhelming. After looking at many builds, mainly three: Willies Spanish FFG (Shipmodels.com), Le Bosco's Richelau (Shipmodels.com) and Bob Carr's Kirov (Shipmodels.com) I was instilled with the confidence to go completely nuts with a ship model. These three builds have the viewer constantly asking one question: why did they bother to buy the kit. They are strongly recommended.

Second, I might have accidentally bought the Trumpeter Sovremenny on clearance today, oops. I guess we know what the next build will be.

Jason thanks for the offer and information about the platforms. For now I will try and do justice to the ship and try and get the overall form and function correct. Im glad your here, it will keep me honest in my presentation.

Progress Report:

I have been procrastinating but I finally glued the hull together. It required three sub steps:

1. remove strange molded detail on the hull sides (in red):


2. close up the hole for the rudder as rudders on Perry Class frigates were offset starboard. The internet is full of reasons for this offsetting but no consensus exists. The best answer I have found is to compensate for the turning screw so that both port and starboard turns will be equal. Jason, can you clear this up?
Frigates in dry dock showing the offset rudder:


Rudder in the hole provided by the kit. Later I will re-drill the hull to the right, no problem:


3. When removing the hull details I erased the boot topping raised detail so i gently rescribed it because every model has to employ the scriber at least once:



I also built a base for the ship. I dont like flying ships so I wanted a base which looked grounded. Here is my solution, the wood is painted with thinned white glue and a couple of coats of future. The bolt heads are inset into the bottom of the base and the nuts are held into the hull with large pieces of sprue.









I think that's enough for one post,

Thanks for looking in,
Bryan


RussellE
#306
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 - 01:01 AM UTC
Hi Bryan!

I've just found your build log and have thoroughly enjoyed reading through it. It's good to see a modern vessel represented-I think many of us get caught up in the nostalgia of WW2/1 vessels that we forget there's many modern ships which can be built too. I know I'm certainly guilty of it After I finish the KGV and Prinz Eugen I'm hoping to get a blog of Airfix's type 45 up and running just for a change of scenery

Keep posting too, mate-Like Jan said, many times we'll look without commenting as often real life makes time limited

Russ
JJ1973
#345
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 12:20 AM UTC
Hi Bryan,

great progress for your first ship you're doing a marvelous job!

Well, I have to be careful here not to confuse you, those FFG's kept changing all along, and not all in the same way. With those two 'bands' you removed from the hull, the upper one was very well present at least in USS Taylor (FFG 50) in 2000. The molded on things there are way to thick, but at least one existed at some time. Now - was the second one added later? So that means in the 80's there's a chance that none was there and you got it perfectly right. That I simply don't know.

As for the rudder, about half a meter to the right, I am excited to see that you know about it and that you are going to build it!!
Now why was this done? I know a lot rumors/arguments, I can't give a final answer. Only that much - if it was intended to get the tactical diameter/turning radius for port and starboard turns equal, it failed miserably, you have a by far narrower turn to port than to starboard.
I heard it was build this way to be able to disassemble the screw without taking the rudder away first, but that doesn't really make sense, either. You could just turn ist away. But than, if you need to take out the shaft - that happens every than and when - the rudder position would be helpful.
However, maybe it was installed this way with the turning radius in mind and simply didn't work...

Anyway, your Reuben James is coming along really nice

Cheers,

Jan
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 12:32 AM UTC
Russell, glad to have you aboard, Your King George is a lot of fun to watch.

Jan thanks for the good comment,

After looking at hundreds of FFG photos I have found the best way to date them is by looking at the launch. If it is the whaleboat and a long hull version, it is in the 80s. Sometime after that they switched to a fiberglass/inflatable thing and the crane changed. All I have to due is stay true to the boats with a whaleboat. As such the ships in the 80s don't seem to have any of that molded stuff on the hull (I think it was applied along with those vertical belts to help further support the hull).

That rudder is goofy but unique. I sent a message to my Uncle who was a 688 captain, we will see what he says.

Thanks checking in and the repulse is looking great.

Bryan
Blespooky
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Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 01:18 AM UTC
Here is my Uncles thorough response:

Rudder offset. Perry class ships are single screw. They also have ASW as a major mission, so the intent is to reduce the amount of cavitation (bubbles that collapse and make noise). Skimmers (surface ships) have a bigger problem with this since they do not have high sea pressure to compress the cavitation like submarines do (whole separate discussion). Hence, the screw is carefully designed to minimize cavitation. The flow from the screw can impinge on the rudder and, as the flow rate is vastly higher than the surrounding sea (which can be considered to be zero), cavitation can occur on the trailing edge of the rudder. Hence, offset it to reduce this problem. Perry class ships were the first USN surface ships to use a screw that generally operates at a constant RPM and vary the pitch of the blades to control speed. This is a result of having a gas turbine propulsion plant.
2. Three kinds of water shooting out of the sides of ships. One is the discharge of sea connected systems.

I think this can be considered as expert testimony,
Bryan
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 01:34 AM UTC
Bryan,

That stack is a kit unto itself! Nice work.
JJ1973
#345
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Niedersachsen, Germany
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Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2015 - 04:19 PM UTC
Hi Bryan,

thanks for that explanation from your uncle! I have never heard/thought about the rudder offset connected to acoustic signature/trailing edge cavitation of the rudder. Being on the skimmer side of life for myself, I tend to believe whatever those sub guys say about hydroacoustics and cavitation - even though we deal with it as well, they are so much more proficient with those topics.
I go along with your statement to consider this expert testimony

Jan
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2015 - 03:55 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

Back to the little details, I find them to be a nice break between the daunting larger tasks like gluing the deck to the hull.

Today's Progress:

More little things on the superstructure roof aft.

Photo showing the parts that were modified:


Air intakes fattened up and given their little base flange (purple circles):


Strange angled electricity boxes (red circles) and other tidbits (green circles)some of which I have no idea as to their purpose:


Refueling pipes/valves (magenta circle):


Finally I folded the cradles for the life rafts (brown circles):



My question to everyone is how to paint the black line on the life raft pods? Any ideas?

Thanks for looking,
Bryan

JJ1973
#345
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Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 - 12:58 AM UTC
Bryan,

great attention to detail, great references That's going to be a wonderful Reuben James!!

You ask about the black lines on the life rafts - I don't really understand your question. Do you mean how to physically paint it, or more what color exactly it is and what it should look like?
I guess you know that they are no 'stripes' but rather some rubber, this is where the containers part and spring open once they are released.

I have to come back to the rudder issue - found an interesting pic today, showing screws and rudders of a DDG 51. Two screws, two rudders, both rudders slightly inside of the centre of the respective screws. Should be the same principle but I never noticed it - in a way it is symmetric and therefor simply appears not as strange as the single screw/rudder combination on the FFG's. And your uncles explanation still works!

Cheers,
Jan
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 - 04:11 AM UTC
Jan, I meant how to paint the rubber piece

Bryan
TRM5150
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 - 03:18 PM UTC
Tidy work Bryan! A fine tipped brush with thinned down paint (enamel or acrylic would do. Might need two quick coats but the capillary action of the thin paint runs more or less like a pin wash in that recess. A medium to a dark grey I would figure. Other than that, maybe a fine tipped drafting marker. Keep up the great work!!
Blespooky
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Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
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Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 - 04:52 PM UTC
1/350 FFG-57 Reuben James

Todd I was referring to the black rubber line along the horizontal center of the life raft canisters as seen in this photo:


But I think a black pen is a great solution,
thanks,

Bryan