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campaign planing
Mcleod
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 07, 2010
KitMaker: 1,028 posts
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Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Ben what would you say to an entry being allowed in that has not been painted on the exterior, would that be 90%?


Hi Richard
My thoughts are that a model would have to be completed entirely for the campaign. With paint and all. On some models, the exterior finish is 90% of the work. Or so it seems.

I'm not suggesting that just throwing on a prop is a campaign entry.
My thoughts are only my 2 cents worth, though.
ljames0874
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 15, 2012
KitMaker: 408 posts
AeroScale: 365 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 02:00 PM UTC
I certainly agree with Michael's two ideas, and I think they will have a positive effect (certainly they will cut the backlog of campaigns down if we have two a month starting). As for what constitutes a finished model - assembled, painted and decalled would be my idea. Some people like to spend as long on weathering as they did on the painting, which is fine, but I would suggest to get the ribbon within the time frame of the campaign, assembled, painted and decalled would be a good benchmark.

As for partially started kits, I think they should be permitted. Quite a lot of the time, If you buy second hand kits, they have been started by someone else, maybe they need stripping and cleaning up before you can start on them. Basically, if allowing part started kits translates into more campaign entries, and a higher percentage of photos in the campaign gallery, then I am in favour of it. Let us begin the new year with some positive moves towards improving the way campaigns work!
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,177 posts
AeroScale: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 05:52 PM UTC
Howdy Y'all
I certainly agree with Michael's ideas & comments. I feel I'm out of my league because I rarely finish an aircraft model. The local club entries are just about any kind of model except airplanes.
With over 100 aircraft kits in my stash you can see I need to shift my priorities and learn from y'all. I certainly hope to finish more than one aircraft model in 2015. I think we'll be starting the new year on a positive footing.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,369 posts
AeroScale: 7,396 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Y'all
I certainly agree with Michael's ideas & comments. I feel I'm out of my league because I rarely finish an aircraft model. The local club entries are just about any kind of model except airplanes.
With over 100 aircraft kits in my stash you can see I need to shift my priorities and learn from y'all. I certainly hope to finish more than one aircraft model in 2015. I think we'll be starting the new year on a positive footing.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"



Don,
If you follow my model building philosophy, I can assure you that your finish rate will be over 90%. I start, & work on just one model through completion. I don't even open any other boxes except for the next build so that I can plan out what I want to do, start my research, and order AM goodies as needed. The concept of multi builds only seems to work if you can multi task well. And from what I've read here and on other sites, the Shelf Queen shelves are pretty busy places.
Joel
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,785 posts
AeroScale: 2,790 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 08:13 PM UTC
Thanks for your comments everyone! It's nice to see positive feedback.

My concept was to allow a model that's up to 33% started as an entry into a campaign. To get the ribbon, it would need to be finished and in the gallery. What "finished" means is up to the modeler to a certain extent, but fully built, painted, and decaled as a stand-alone model at the very least. If you plan to put it in a diorama later, I wouldn't see that as necessary for it to be "finished" for a campaign. Also I guess it wouldn't have to be fully weathered (I'm not a big one for weathering myself) and lots of modelers go back and futz with kits later. But you and the campaign leader would have to agree it's a finished kit. Honestly I haven't seen this issue come up while I've been doing this.

On the whole, I'd say that the vast majority of people I've dealt with in this job have been very reasonable and understanding that this is a hobby, not life or death (though I know those folks are out there!). I'm glad to be doing this job and glad to work with you all. My concept right now is to contact everyone who's campaign starts in 6 months or more and ask if they're interested in moving it up. I'll probably suggest moving the first one up to February rather than January so as not to shock the system too much. I will also contact all current listed campaign leaders and see about allowing started models. Let's see how that goes. Do you all think a general announcement in the campaign forum is also a good idea?

Again, thanks for all your suggestions and feedback and thanks for starting this thread Drabslab!

Michael
drabslab
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European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,174 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 09:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Again, thanks for all your suggestions and feedback and thanks for starting this thread Drabslab!

Michael



Well, In all honesty, it scared me a bit that I had started such a huge discussion

A small suggestion:

I imagine, maybe wrongly, that we all have our main interest, for some this is WW I, for others it is helicopters, or modern jets.

Maybe we can make a few categories, and allow one single campaign to be active within each category, at any moment in time.

This way, we could have several campaigns going on in parrallel, while giving people a chance to finish in time as well.




Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 09:24 PM UTC
Michael,
I actually took your suggestion and found a active campaign that my almost started F-15C build would qualify for; Ben's National Pride campaign. I posted my intention of cross posting in a full blown Build blog for the Modern Forum as that is the agreement I have with Jim for this build, with a posting of just a few pics and description's plus the blog link as I did with the A-6E build/Grumman Campaign.

Any idea that gets more members to build and complete their builds, I'm for. Like I said, if all I wanted to do was talk about specific aircraft models, a SIG for that or posting in a on going build blog would be the right way to go. A campaign is for building and sharing build ideas on a similar modeling subject.

It may come as a surprise to many here, but I'm not a aircraft enthusiast. I don't even really enjoy flying for the sake of flying. It's just a method of transportation for me. I'm a scale modeler who enjoys building military models and at one time race cars. So I see these issues from a different perspective then most.

Joel
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,785 posts
AeroScale: 2,790 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 09:40 PM UTC
Drabslab,

You did us a favor by starting this, so thanks again! Your suggestion is an interesting one but I don't want to make too many changes at once or do anything that would discourage the creativity I see in the different campaigns we have. Let's see how these modifications go first and then look at different ideas if we need to.

Joel,

In fact, I'm working on the F-15B/D kit for both a build review and the IDF campaign! I consider that and what you're doing as perfectly legitimate. I agree with the standing rule that one model can get a ribbon in only one campaign, but that's not what we're doing. How far along are you with the C kit?

Michael
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 10:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Drabslab,

You did us a favor by starting this, so thanks again! Your suggestion is an interesting one but I don't want to make too many changes at once or do anything that would discourage the creativity I see in the different campaigns we have. Let's see how these modifications go first and then look at different ideas if we need to.

Joel,

In fact, I'm working on the F-15B/D kit for both a build review and the IDF campaign! I consider that and what you're doing as perfectly legitimate. I agree with the standing rule that one model can get a ribbon in only one campaign, but that's not what we're doing. How far along are you with the C kit?

Michael



Michael,
I just started the kit as I wanted to finish the P-38L 1st. All I've accomplished is building the kit Aces 11 ejection seat, which is rather well detailed. I removed the shoulder harnesses, then using a modified PE Harness and double lap belts added them to the painted seat. A little more added details, and it will be ready for a Glosscoat and a few decals.

the kit is extremely well detailed, and honestly, I've never seen so many pcs in a kit before. I'm est. that the build at my snail's pace will take me close to 4 months. Accuracy, and little added details over AM resin is how I'm going to proceed with the build. At this point, I'm still looking at a AM set of decals, as I really don't care much for the kit options.

My present building philosophy is to create the best presentation model I can build. After all, that's what they are. I'm not into contests any longer, so super detailing doesn't add anything to my builds.

I don't know where you are with your build, but since the kits are basically the same, maybe we can do a buddy build that would be a little different prospective for the members then two basically the same builds at the same time.

I'm heading into work now, so I won't be online till late Monday Morning.

Joel
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,785 posts
AeroScale: 2,790 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 10:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Michael,
I just started the kit as I wanted to finish the P-38L 1st. All I've accomplished is building the kit Aces 11 ejection seat, which is rather well detailed. I removed the shoulder harnesses, then using a modified PE Harness and double lap belts added them to the painted seat. A little more added details, and it will be ready for a Glosscoat and a few decals.

the kit is extremely well detailed, and honestly, I've never seen so many pcs in a kit before. I'm est. that the build at my snail's pace will take me close to 4 months. Accuracy, and little added details over AM resin is how I'm going to proceed with the build. At this point, I'm still looking at a AM set of decals, as I really don't care much for the kit options.

My present building philosophy is to create the best presentation model I can build. After all, that's what they are. I'm not into contests any longer, so super detailing doesn't add anything to my builds.

I don't know where you are with your build, but since the kits are basically the same, maybe we can do a buddy build that would be a little different prospective for the members then two basically the same builds at the same time.

I'm heading into work now, so I won't be online till late Monday Morning.

Joel



Joel,

Sounds interesting! I've got mine just about ready for paint on the airframe. I used a couple of spare Aces seats from a Revell F-15E and am using shrouded exhausts from a Hasegawa F-15C since I'm doing an Israeli bird. My biggest problems so far have been keeping the revised parts separate from the incorrectly shaped original parts (I think I slipped up on the electronics bay doors on the nose). Pretty sure that's not a problem with the C since I'm guessing they issued it with correct parts to begin with. Otherwise it's coming together nicely.

Michael
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,177 posts
AeroScale: 284 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2014 - 04:49 AM UTC
Howdy Joel
I will certainly start to move toward you method. I've also read comments by professional builders to always have 2 kits going on simultaneously. The plan to finish off some of my shelf queens this coming year. The stash is getting ridiculous.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2014 - 08:27 PM UTC
Michael,
You'll really way ahead of me as I'm just at the starting line. The C does indeed have all the correct parts. Will be stopping by the IDF campaign to checkout your progress.

I've been mostly a Naval aircraft modeler, and the same goes for the few jets I've built. The F-15C is my 1st USAF jet, so it's like starting all over again.

Joel
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2014 - 08:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Joel
I will certainly start to move toward you method. I've also read comments by professional builders to always have 2 kits going on simultaneously. The plan to finish off some of my shelf queens this coming year. The stash is getting ridiculous.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"



Don,
The few professionals I've known usually have more then 2 builds going, as they're on a time schedule per contract/agreement. Most modelers I know for years on end have a few builds going at one time, but are at different stages, so that if you're lets say priming one aircraft, afterwards you work on another build during your work session.

I've just never been able to do that and keep focused on a build through completion. The few times I did try that, I found myself reaching a difficult area of the build, and just stopped working on it. The reality is that's when I need to really focus and work my way through it.

For me, my method works. For you, find what's your comfort zone and stay within it.

As for stashes, my max is 12 kits. Never more. I never worry about a kit going out of production, and not being able to find it later. With For Sale sections on virtually every modeling site, and ebay, you can find anything you really want. Besides, with the constant increase in kit accuracy and greater detail, a new release of the same subject happens more often then not. Same for AM parts.

I know several guys who literally bought 2 and 3 of every release in the 70s and 80s figuring that what they didn't build or want, they could sell for a profit once the kits went out of production. As it turns out they spend all their time at shows and contests taking a table or two, and trying to sell off what they can at a loss from the literally thousands of kits they still have.

Joel
Lakota
#123
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New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,177 posts
AeroScale: 284 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 11:38 PM UTC
Joel,
Thanks for the tips, insights and advice. I wish I had realized 10+ years ago there was no need to build up a stash of kits. My "started but unfinished" stack could rival someone else's stash.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"