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Armor/AFV: Early Armor
WWI and other early tanks and armored cars.
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Meng, Takom let's have a MkVIII Liberty tank
Beastmaster
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 11:21 AM UTC
Great news about the MkIV and we've also got the excellent FT17 and St Chamond kits but this monster would make a great addition to go alongside the other WW1 tanks also........


http://www.tanks.net/world-war-one-tanks/mark-viii-heavy-tank.html


and also this cute little guy too....



http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/vehicles/Ford-M1918-WWI-Tank.html



Although these 2 tanks never saw combat in WW1 -- development of these 2 started in WW1 so they're still linked to that era.

Youngun
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 12:55 PM UTC
None of the Mk IV's are out yet and we already want something else.

The Liberty tank was barely used in WWI, and even then 100 were produced post war. Not really the iconic status of the MK.IV tank had during WWI. Seem's like kind of a waste of manufactures time when there are so many other more notable historic and modern vehicles which could be kitted. (A7V, Whippet, Cougar MRAP etc...)
Beastmaster
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 04:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

None of the Mk IV's are out yet and we already want something else.

The Liberty tank was barely used in WWI, and even then 100 were produced post war. Not really the iconic status of the MK.IV tank had during WWI. Seem's like kind of a waste of manufactures time when there are so many other more notable historic and modern vehicles which could be kitted. (A7V, Whippet, Cougar MRAP etc...)






You make it sound like I'm not that bothered the MkIV is coming out which is completely the opposite of what I feel.

The whole reason I started this thread is because I'm really pleased we're finally getting a new state of the art MkIV and other WW1 tanks and tanks like the MkVIII seem more possible now.

The MkVIII might not be as well known as the MkIV but it's still WW1 era and it's still well known amongst WW1 tank fanatics. I can't think off the top of my head but I'm sure there's been less well known tanks than that kitted and the 1918 Ford.
Grauwolf
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 05:02 PM UTC
Well now that Tamiya and Takom have started, maybe Dragon, Bronco or even HB
will kick in with these.

I am sure many modelers would show interest.

Cheers,
Beastmaster
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 05:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well now that Tamiya and Takom have started, maybe Dragon, Bronco or even HB
will kick in with these.

I am sure many modelers would show interest.

Cheers,






Me too. Now the WW1 ball's started rolling and probably most WW2 tanks have been kitted already some manufacturer's gotta do these tanks eventually........and I think this Centenary year's the best time.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 09:54 AM UTC
And don't forget Alex. Meng's already done an even more obscure tank recently (the Char 2C heavy tank) which wasn't even produced in WW1.

At least the MkVIII did appear during WW1 even if it didn't see combat so it's still a part of WW1 tank history.
Agamemnon2
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 10:28 AM UTC
I'm pretty sure we're going to see another "Mark" tank later on. It makes sense for them to start with the IV, with 1400 made it was very prolific after all. I fully expect to see a MkV as well. VIII and IX might well follow, being interesting and noteworthy prototypes.

If we're wishing, I'd love to see a new Whippet, Emhar's kit is a bit of a dog even with the aftermarket tracks. Not sure if you could reach a fully in-scale wall thickness with plastic, but the big rear door would lend itself nicely to a kit with full interior detail.
jwest21
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 12:05 PM UTC
does the Mk VIII share any common components with the Mk IV?
tankmodeler
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

does the Mk VIII share any common components with the Mk IV?


The 6 pdrs and the MGs? That would be it though.

A very different vehicle.
Youngun
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 02:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And don't forget Alex. Meng's already done an even more obscure tank recently (the Char 2C heavy tank) which wasn't even produced in WW1.

At least the MkVIII did appear during WW1 even if it didn't see combat so it's still a part of WW1 tank history.



Char 2c played a large roll during the invasion of France in WWII. So it spans two wars, and their is more documentation on it, after they were captured by the Germans. The Mk VIII had about 100 produced, was quickly phased out and save for the weapons has little in common with the earlier mk IV's.

The St. Chamond was at least used in combat, produced in some what large numbers (400) and was essentially Frances Mk IV, untill it was replaced.

The MK VIII was produced in small numbers (125), never used in combat and phased out quickly.

The MK VIII would be best suited to a resin manufacturer who focuses on smaller more niche kits. While Takom, Meng could focus on the bigger more well known WWI tanks that still haven't been given proper glory (the Whippet, A7V etc..)

Takom and Tamiya producing these kits more then likely has to do with them attempting to cash in on the upcoming 100th anniversary of WWI. Probably why Tamiya choose motorization, more mass appeal as a toy and Takom is going with the static model to cash in on the serious modelers who want the grandaddy of the modern beasts.
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 03:21 AM UTC
Personal preference a new Whippet and some nice British Lorries.

Al
TimTam27
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 04:01 AM UTC
So no-one is interested in a Schneider CA1? Would have thought that would have qualified as a wanted WWI kit.

Cheers.
cdharwins
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 04:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So no-one is interested in a Schneider CA1? Would have thought that would have qualified as a wanted WWI kit.

Cheers.



I am!!!!
jwest21
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

does the Mk VIII share any common components with the Mk IV?


The 6 pdrs and the MGs? That would be it though.

A very different vehicle.


Thanks Paul. I was hoping if they shared more, there would be a higher probability of them being kitted.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

And don't forget Alex. Meng's already done an even more obscure tank recently (the Char 2C heavy tank) which wasn't even produced in WW1.

At least the MkVIII did appear during WW1 even if it didn't see combat so it's still a part of WW1 tank history.



Char 2c played a large roll during the invasion of France in WWII. So it spans two wars, and their is more documentation on it, after they were captured by the Germans. The Mk VIII had about 100 produced, was quickly phased out and save for the weapons has little in common with the earlier mk IV's.

The St. Chamond was at least used in combat, produced in some what large numbers (400) and was essentially Frances Mk IV, untill it was replaced.

The MK VIII was produced in small numbers (125), never used in combat and phased out quickly.

The MK VIII would be best suited to a resin manufacturer who focuses on smaller more niche kits. While Takom, Meng could focus on the bigger more well known WWI tanks that still haven't been given proper glory (the Whippet, A7V etc..)

Takom and Tamiya producing these kits more then likely has to do with them attempting to cash in on the upcoming 100th anniversary of WWI. Probably why Tamiya choose motorization, more mass appeal as a toy and Takom is going with the static model to cash in on the serious modelers who want the grandaddy of the modern beasts.











No they didn't play a large part in the invasion of France. they were kept out of harms way and used for propaganda purposes only and they didn't span 2 world wars as it was only briefly used again as propaganda in WW2 and wasn't in WW1.

And as for documentation ......there's some surviving MkVIII examples whilst the last Char 2C disappeared in 1948 so we probably know much more about the MkVIII.

And the Mk VIII still appeared during WW1 and is quite a well known tank. I'm really glad Meng gave us the Char 2C but the Mk VIII's just as good a subject as the Char 2C and probably even more so. As for thee Whippet I think we'll probably see that anyway.

jwest21
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:15 AM UTC
Oh and if anyone is listening, I'd like a Schneider tank too.
Youngun
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Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 04:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


And as for documentation ......there's some surviving MkVIII examples whilst the last Char 2C disappeared in 1948 so we probably know much more about the MkVIII.

And the Mk VIII still appeared during WW1 and is quite a well known tank. I'm really glad Meng gave us the Char 2C but the Mk VIII's just as good a subject as the Char 2C and probably even more so. As for thee Whippet I think we'll probably see that anyway.





All that said, the MK VIII is still probably best left for resin manufactures who do niche subjects. While Meng and Takom focus on things with more mass appeal and that will be profitable for them.
ninjrk
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Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 04:44 AM UTC
We'll see. I suspect there might be a higher chance of getting a Liberty than its history might suggest. I suspect we got a 2C not because of it's historical importance but because it is a big, interesting looking tank and makes a neat model. Looking cool probably sells at least as many models as historical background does!
Beastmaster
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Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


And as for documentation ......there's some surviving MkVIII examples whilst the last Char 2C disappeared in 1948 so we probably know much more about the MkVIII.

And the Mk VIII still appeared during WW1 and is quite a well known tank. I'm really glad Meng gave us the Char 2C but the Mk VIII's just as good a subject as the Char 2C and probably even more so. As for thee Whippet I think we'll probably see that anyway.





All that said, the MK VIII is still probably best left for resin manufactures who do niche subjects. While Meng and Takom focus on things with more mass appeal and that will be profitable for them.






Just because you don't want a Mk VIII doesn't mean it's necessarily a niche subject or it won't be profitable. There's been more obscure tanks (like the Char 2C) already done in plastic and it's still a fairly well known tank so it's got as good a chance as many other tanks being a plastic kit not resin.

Again it's still very much a part of WW1 tank history and history in general.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 07:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

We'll see. I suspect there might be a higher chance of getting a Liberty than its history might suggest. I suspect we got a 2C not because of it's historical importance but because it is a big, interesting looking tank and makes a neat model. Looking cool probably sells at least as many models as historical background does!










Absolutely. The Char 2C might not have been used apart for propaganda in WW2 but it's still a really cool looking tank.


Meng are to be applauded for doing it in plastic.
Beastmaster
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 06:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm pretty sure we're going to see another "Mark" tank later on. It makes sense for them to start with the IV, with 1400 made it was very prolific after all. I fully expect to see a MkV as well. VIII and IX might well follow, being interesting and noteworthy prototypes.

If we're wishing, I'd love to see a new Whippet, Emhar's kit is a bit of a dog even with the aftermarket tracks. Not sure if you could reach a fully in-scale wall thickness with plastic, but the big rear door would lend itself nicely to a kit with full interior detail.









I wonder if Takom will do a Whippet too as the tracks are the same as the MkIV. Might make good business sense to expand their use seeing as they'll be tooled up already
SdAufKla
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 07:46 AM UTC
FWIW, I'd like to see all three: a Mk.VIII, a Schneider CA and a new Whippet in 1/35 scale.

In so far as the discussion of the relative historical merits between the Mk.VIII and the Char 2C, consider:

1) The Mk.VIII was the first "international" AFV design in history, and that combined Anglo-American effort presaged the much talked about (in other threads here) MBT-KPz 70 project by almost a half century.

2) The Mk.VIII was actually produced in significant numbers. TEN times more Mk.VIII's were produced than Char 2C's, and the MBT-KPz 70 never got out of the prototype stage.

3) The Mk.VIII was fielded in multiple-battalion strength by the US Army and formed the backbone of US armor (such as it was) for most of the interwar period.

4) The Mk.VIII was on the books by three countries: England, the US and Canada. The Char 2C was only ever used by France.

5) The Char 2C's contribution to WWII was as a target for German dive bombers after the French scuttled them while they were still rail loaded.

6) The US Mk.VIII's served Canadian forces at least as much, if not more, than the Char 2C served the German propaganda effort.

Interestingly enough, there is another tie-in between the Mk.VIII and the Char 2C - At least one tank was used in the US to test the Char 2C's "Stroboscopic" commander's cupola.

I think the Mk.VIII "Liberty" or "International" is a historically significant subject. We would be well served with a detailed and accurate kit of it. No less worthy luminaries than Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis proclaimed that "the Mark VIII was probably the finest AFV design of the war years..." ("Armour in Profile No. 19," p.10).

My 2-bits...
Beastmaster
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 10:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

FWIW, I'd like to see all three: a Mk.VIII, a Schneider CA and a new Whippet in 1/35 scale.

In so far as the discussion of the relative historical merits between the Mk.VIII and the Char 2C, consider:

1) The Mk.VIII was the first "international" AFV design in history, and that combined Anglo-American effort presaged the much talked about (in other threads here) MBT-KPz 70 project by almost a half century.

2) The Mk.VIII was actually produced in significant numbers. TEN times more Mk.VIII's were produced than Char 2C's, and the MBT-KPz 70 never got out of the prototype stage.

3) The Mk.VIII was fielded in multiple-battalion strength by the US Army and formed the backbone of US armor (such as it was) for most of the interwar period.

4) The Mk.VIII was on the books by three countries: England, the US and Canada. The Char 2C was only ever used by France.

5) The Char 2C's contribution to WWII was as a target for German dive bombers after the French scuttled them while they were still rail loaded.

6) The US Mk.VIII's served Canadian forces at least as much, if not more, than the Char 2C served the German propaganda effort.

Interestingly enough, there is another tie-in between the Mk.VIII and the Char 2C - At least one tank was used in the US to test the Char 2C's "Stroboscopic" commander's cupola.

I think the Mk.VIII "Liberty" or "International" is a historically significant subject. We would be well served with a detailed and accurate kit of it. No less worthy luminaries than Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis proclaimed that "the Mark VIII was probably the finest AFV design of the war years..." ("Armour in Profile No. 19," p.10).

My 2-bits...








Excellent points. I'd like to see all these tanks too plus the 1918 Ford tank.
Adamskii
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 11:34 AM UTC
If you want a tank that was produced in small numbers, had little to no impact on the war, was perhaps even only made after the war, or not even made at all just some designs on paper, and would bypass other more relevant and much needed vehicles in model form.. Address your request to Dragon. Just tell them the Germans captured a few and they will be all over it. Hell I imagine if they made a mk1V they would only include German markings!

Their track record speaks for itself.

Adam. tongue firmly in cheek
Beastmaster
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2014 - 08:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you want a tank that was produced in small numbers, had little to no impact on the war, was perhaps even only made after the war, or not even made at all just some designs on paper, and would bypass other more relevant and much needed vehicles in model form.. Address your request to Dragon. Just tell them the Germans captured a few and they will be all over it. Hell I imagine if they made a mk1V they would only include German markings!

Their track record speaks for itself.

Adam. tongue firmly in cheek






Indeed. I know they're German and German WW2 stuff usually sells by the bucketload.........but the old paper Panzers weren't exactly er......real.