login   |    register
Air Campaigns
Want to start or join a group build? This is where to start.
Now Enlisting: Fighter / Bomber Campaign
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 01:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Talking about tins of fish bait, how about a Camel with 4 20lb Cooper bombs, or a CR42AS, slower than a Beau but designed as a fighter. I've just been reading Steve Coonts book "Cannibal Queen", and you should see what he writes about the F-4 drivers who took their piddling 6 500lb bombs into Vietnam. Fighter Bombers are a compromise, really we are talking aircraft designed as fighters that can drop bombs, otherwise it is any aircraft with all it's armament firing forward that can both drop bombs and dogfight, (however badly it does either). Define the scope and we may not need a list.



Andrew, no confusion there. Its a day fighter that with some work was fitted out to drop bombs. So yes to a Camel, Mark and I have been having fun with documentation and the CR42 had the ability to carry bombs (small) and the A4 was designed to be a fighter in its initial form so yes.

this quote (Fighter Bombers are a compromise, really we are talking aircraft designed as fighters that can drop bombs, otherwise it is any aircraft with all it's armament firing forward that can both drop bombs and dogfight, (however badly it does either). is exactly what I was trying to get across and I put it in the first post.

Bob
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 02:00 PM UTC
OK, I'm confused already

Quoted Text

the A4 was designed to be a fighter in its initial form so yes.



You mean the F-4 Phantom II?
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 02:47 PM UTC
Mark, lets just go with the list idea and keep the confusion to a minimum. PM

Bob
Beauslx
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Nevada, United States
Joined: August 28, 2013
KitMaker: 159 posts
AeroScale: 116 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 03:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Robert its a yes on the Mosquito since there were fighter versions the a/c was also a fighter either in the day or night role and since it did not have a large crew to defend it as a vunerable target. FIGHTER/BOMBER a/c that is able to drop its payload then have the ability to protect itself by reverting back to its intended role of either as a fighter or pursuit a/c.

Hello Mark, glad that you found the thread.

Two more and I will be able to submit this to the higher ups.

Bob



Mossy it is then...
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2014 - 03:40 PM UTC
If I can count that makes (10)all Mark and I need to do it pin down the rules and list then submit it to the powers that be.


Bob
2002hummer
#257
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: October 11, 2011
KitMaker: 798 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 02:49 AM UTC
If the campaign starts in 2015 count me in. I won't choose an AC until a list is posted but my favorite aircraft of all times is the Mossie.
amegan
#243
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 21, 2008
KitMaker: 996 posts
AeroScale: 915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 04:56 AM UTC
I nearly bought another kit today, Revell Bristol F2B and the box art shows it dropping bombs, it's a Bristol Fighter!
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:14 AM UTC
Ok! that is (11) so now to finish up on the list. Andrew it does have the F2B on it so I guess you now will blame me for going out and spending more money

p.s. list is in its final go over: rules and THAT list are on their way.

Bob
RedwingNev
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2004
KitMaker: 902 posts
AeroScale: 406 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:22 AM UTC
To the surprise of no-one, I would be in with something like this

Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:40 AM UTC
Hello Neil, I just came back to Aeroscale/Armorama after a long hiatus so you mean to tell me you love F-16's? Glad to have you along, Mark has been editing the rules and list and they should be up soon (the problem has been WW I a/c documentation as to their carrying ordnance) and then that PM to an administrator.

OH! the F-16's are on the list for sure.

p.s. this post has been reedited since I mistakenly put F/A 18. Thats what I get for typing without my glasses LOL

Bob
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 06:18 AM UTC
ah, Bob, that's an F-16, it's got overwing conformal fuel tanks. I'd have called it an F-16I, but now I see the the USAF is buying F-16E/Fs now.

I've got a 3 page! list of candidates for this build from Bob. We'll wade thru it and see what we might have missed (hint most of them will probably have more than 1 wing )
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 06:41 AM UTC
Mark: you need to keep a close eye on me especailly when I try to read without my glasses :

List of those interested:

Robert CALLSIGN: Beauslx
Sean Hadfield CALLSIGN: windysean
Don Smith CALLSIGN: Lakota
Andrew Egan CALLSIGN: amegan
Tom Stepniowski CALLSIGN: macotra4
Jessica Cooper CALLSIGN: Jessie_C
Mark Doremus CALLSIGN: md72
Bob R. CALLSIGN: Bigrip74
Lee James CALLSIGN: ljames0874
Richard Tonge CALLSIGN: tinbanger
Darrell Bedford CALLSIGN: 2002hummer
Neil CALLSIGN: RedwingNev


Bob
RedwingNev
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2004
KitMaker: 902 posts
AeroScale: 406 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 06:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Neil, I just came back to Aeroscale/Armorama after a long hiatus so you mean to tell me you love F-16's?



Well, there's this little project I'm working on...

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=207550#1741951




Quoted Text

that's an F-16, it's got overwing conformal fuel tanks. I'd have called it an F-16I, but now I see the the USAF is buying F-16E/Fs now.



I think the USAF would love to buy some E/F's, but not only do they not have two pennies to rub together, they are not going to do anything that jeopordises their planned F-35 purchase [/OT]
noddy927
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 15, 2013
KitMaker: 1,256 posts
AeroScale: 184 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 06:59 AM UTC
I Have a Revel 1/32 Eurofighter Typhoon I am itching to start so I would join. 2015 sounds good.

Pete
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:09 AM UTC
@ Neil, you are correct sir, I read the Wiki up to United, and added "States Air Force" and ignored "Arab Emirates"

I wonder how 'different' the Israeli and UAE versions really are.
Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,896 posts
AeroScale: 6,184 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:33 AM UTC
On the subject of the Mossie, I watched an enjoyable video the other day about the last flyable Mosquito in the world and its appearance in the Hamilton Airshow last summer where it flew with the Lancaster, two Spitfires and two Hurricanes (no less than TEN Merlins in the air together at the same time!)

The pilot said that when he was in formation with fighters, the Mossie flies like a bomber but when he was in formation with the bomber it flew like a fighter! See the approx 1:30 mark:
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:39 AM UTC
Mark, that is (13) what do you say we put up the rules, list, and let it fly then send to the admin?

Bob
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:43 AM UTC
There's an effort to rebuild another one.
People's Mosquito
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 09:23 AM UTC
@Jessie: I veiwed this and I think two more videos that you posted on the De Haviland campaign. What can I say (nothing) they must be seen to maybe get a little feel of all the history flying in formation. I only wish that I could have been there to hear the merlins and feel the vibrations of the a/c and engines in the air. A BIG THANKS FOR THE VIDEO JESSIE.

@Mark: WOW! That was inspirational and in color no less. What was the mission and what were the crews thinking as they headed out into harms way, I cannot imagine or even am qualified to do so. Great video Mark A BIG THANK YOU!


Bob
ljames0874
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 15, 2012
KitMaker: 408 posts
AeroScale: 365 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 09:51 AM UTC
That's an awesome clip, it's getting me very excited about the Canadian Lanc coming over here for a visit in August.
Nito74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: March 04, 2008
KitMaker: 5,383 posts
AeroScale: 634 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 11:28 AM UTC
I'm in with an F-16 or 18 or even a Su-22.
Plenty of time to choose and change my mind over and over until we're ready to go ...
Snorri23
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 25, 2010
KitMaker: 514 posts
AeroScale: 244 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:00 PM UTC
So I am a bit confused upon the planes that can be involved within this party. Since the Mossie is included I do believe that the Ju88 should be as well. Since it was fitteg out for ground attack. A darn big 75 sticking out of it. KG 40 used them for their patrolling of the bay of Biscay and train busting to say of a few roles that it played. I will be joining this group with a Bf 110.
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:15 PM UTC
We're still working it out, Bob sent me a 3 page list to pore over st see what he might have missed or what might be a poor choice.. And the intertubes are nibbling on the update he tried to send me this afternoon.

So were still getting calibrated, and I'm trying to define a philosophy about how to select the candidates.
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,013 posts
AeroScale: 2,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:26 PM UTC
I just sent Mark the entire package: preamble, rules,and list and as he stated after we cut and or paste what comes out will be presented to admin. for their approval. I loved putting THAT LIST together and its a lengthy one.

Bob
md72
#439
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,748 posts
AeroScale: 3,070 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:30 PM UTC
[Ramble] Nothing official here, just typing out loud. When I first saw this, I thought of front line fighters that due to the passage of time and technology werenít the best planes for air superiority anymore. I was thinking of F-80s, F-84s and F2Hs in Korea after the MiG 15 showed up.

Then I recalled the F4Us and AU-1s (yea, I know, same plane), that the Marines used for close air support in Korea. And they did the same in the Pacific during WWII. In Europe, the Americans used P-47s and P-51 (while still front line planes) and the RAF tagged the Typhoon for ground support, and the Luftwaffe pressed the Fw-190 into the same role. So circumstances played a role in converting fighters into bombers.

Technology also played a different role, as engines increased in power; it became possible to carry heavier loads on smaller airframes. The Mosquito could carry about a quarter of a Lancasterís bomb load, carry it a third of the distance at higher speeds. The same power improvements occurred with jets as well.

As Andrew pointed out a purpose designed fighter-bomber is essentially a compromise and wonít be the best at either. I donít recall too many planes being designed that way before 1975. Usually it was done as a way to extend the life of an existing airframe (or production line). Now itís a way to convince politicians that your entry is the better value.

So as I look at Bobís now 4 page list, Iíll be mindful that it was a fighter, and not just a plane with guns. And when it was a bomber, was it serious about the mission, not just a desperate stab in the dark. [/Ramble]