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Dioramas: Beginners
A good place to look if you are just starting out.
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"Not So Cold" Diorama
All_You_Can_Kit
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Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Friday, August 09, 2013 - 11:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


And enjoy I did! Thanks for posting!

A lot of positive elements there, but the best thing is your mud! It couldn't get more dirty and slippery, could it!

I pity the guys who must clean the vehicles and the kit after the mud has dried!

Cheers

Romain




You're welcome Romain, sure, they will need many buckets of melting snow and if needed, send them to the car wash after clean their weapons and uniforms immediately!

Best regards


Garry
ANT1969
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: April 08, 2013
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 07:12 AM UTC
Hi, Garry!
Congratulations, really grandiose scene! May I make a suggestion? You could create small puddles in the mud pits from Vallejo Still Water. This would be a more realistic mud.

Regards

Antal

All_You_Can_Kit
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Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 07:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, Garry!
Congratulations, really grandiose scene! I may make a suggestion? You could create small puddles in the mud pits from Vallejo Still Water. This would be a more realistic mud.

Regards

Antal




Thank you so much my friend Antal, I also try to learn better and better for another project Of course, with my pleasure. Yup, that's the main critical point I already think about which I didn't perform yet, since it became my first 'muddy' diorama and at the time I realize that, the mud was approximately 90% finished. If there was trial & error or any modifications performed, I still worry how if there was a terrible mistake happened

So...an instant solution conducted: I sprayed multi layer clear paint at several areas to strengthen the wet look rather than add any puddles Sure, in next my 'muddy' diorama and/or vignette, I will try to create such puddles and of course you have also to comment about how'd I do that Anyway, I also never try the Vallejo products before, maybe I will consider to get it online, since it was somewhat difficult to find the product at local hobby stores in Jakarta


Best regards from Indonesia


Garry
ANT1969
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined: April 08, 2013
KitMaker: 216 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 08:50 AM UTC
Garry, I am glad if I can help.
You must try the Still Water sometime, nicely represents the depth of water. Especially if you differently colorize to each layer. From bottom to top, from darker to transparent. I used it also in my Mörser Karl heavy mortar diorama.

Regards

Antal
All_You_Can_Kit
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Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 03:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Garry, I am glad if I can help.
You must try the Still Water sometime, nicely represents the depth of water. Especially if you differently colorize to each layer. From bottom to top, from darker to transparent. I used it also in my Mörser Karl heavy mortar diorama.

Regards

Antal



I forgot something to share that actually I already have tried to make the puddle effect before, by using a very very simple mixture between plain water and PVA white glue which applied into ground holes available. I try this manner because I already unintentionally tried an experiment on a piece of paper sheet with a result that dried PVA glue would became look-like transparent. But, when I tried to apply them into the real project with mud colored groundwork, such thing made me unsatisfied, because it doesn't shows depth of water as you said. Just the same: plain transparent!

Sure, I will try it and hope I find a suitable theme for my another next project soon. By the way, can't wait to see your gigantic gun diorama project Many thanks again and happy modelling mate!


Best regards


Garry
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,766 posts
AeroScale: 3,171 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 03:25 PM UTC
Garry,

I appreciate your diorama. The mud immediately caught my attention. Most impressive. Others have presented useful tips and suggestions and I have no better ideas. That you are replacing some figures is impressive. I bet you are learning a great deal and your next diorama will be stunning!

That's what I like about this site, folks are willing to present helpful constructive criticism without being pompous and condescending. Rare is it that someone picks at a post just to be obnoxious. There is so much to know and it seems that every year new revelations are discovered that changes what was once written in stone. I know I can not keep up with all the new information!



ANT1969
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Budapest, Hungary
Joined: April 08, 2013
KitMaker: 216 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 06:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Garry, I am glad if I can help.
You must try the Still Water sometime, nicely represents the depth of water. Especially if you differently colorize to each layer. From bottom to top, from darker to transparent. I used it also in my Mörser Karl heavy mortar diorama.

Regards

Antal



I forgot something to share that actually I already have tried to make the puddle effect before, by using a very very simple mixture between plain water and PVA white glue which applied into ground holes available. I try this manner because I already unintentionally tried an experiment on a piece of paper sheet with a result that dried PVA glue would became look-like transparent. But, when I tried to apply them into the real project with mud colored groundwork, such thing made me unsatisfied, because it doesn't shows depth of water as you said. Just the same: plain transparent!

Sure, I will try it and hope I find a suitable theme for my another next project soon. By the way, can't wait to see your gigantic gun diorama project Many thanks again and happy modelling mate!


Best regards


Garry



Yes, the white glue dries transparent, but have a problem. In my opinion it is not give a really smooth surface.
Although, you need to take care a few things of Still Water.
At first - the area where you apply Still Water must be 100 percent waterproof. For this the boats varnish is the solution.
At second - the individual layers have a thickness up to 1 mm.
At third - the drying time between each layers must be at least 24 hours. If you have more, it does not matter.
Otherwise, my Mörser dio here is in Armorama. There you go.
http://armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=206291&page=1
As I said, this was my first attempt to make puddle of Still Water. On the other hand it is a bit hurried because the diorama I named to contest, and it was close to the limit.

Best regards, mate

Antal
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 02:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Garry,

I appreciate your diorama. The mud immediately caught my attention. Most impressive. Others have presented useful tips and suggestions and I have no better ideas. That you are replacing some figures is impressive. I bet you are learning a great deal and your next diorama will be stunning!

That's what I like about this site, folks are willing to present helpful constructive criticism without being pompous and condescending. Rare is it that someone picks at a post just to be obnoxious. There is so much to know and it seems that every year new revelations are discovered that changes what was once written in stone. I know I can not keep up with all the new information!






Thank you very much Frederick, it's my pleasure and honor to receive some kind comments from you. Of course my thanks to several fellow modelers that suggest me to perform such replacements in order to make this project looks better and suitable with its current theme. I hope so and I will learn and share for more.

Also my enjoy and happiness can be a member of this forum, beside anything else as you said, also in order to gather opinions as much as possible...either to conduct any needed improvements or to arise self motivation on me to finish any project

Once again, glad to share with you Frederick and have a nice modeling time!



Warm regards from Indonesia


Garry
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 02:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...Although, you need to take care a few things of Still Water.
At first - the area where you apply Still Water must be 100 percent waterproof. For this the boats varnish is the solution.
At second - the individual layers have a thickness up to 1 mm.
At third - the drying time between each layers must be at least 24 hours. If you have more, it does not matter...



Wow! Thanks for your very kind sharing of such steps, I will make this post bookmarked in my own separate important notes By the way, your gun of beast was the most stunning element, nice diorama at all and such further improvements are highly appreciated! Let allow me to take a closer look on it and good luck for your participation in the contest

Cheers


Garry
ANT1969
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Budapest, Hungary
Joined: April 08, 2013
KitMaker: 216 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 04:11 AM UTC
You're very welcome! I hope this info helps.
And thank for your appreciate of my dio! Furthermore, the said contest has already taken place, even in spring of 2013.
Sorry for the lack of information and for

Cheers

Antal
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,766 posts
AeroScale: 3,171 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 04:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also my enjoy and happiness can be a member of this forum, beside anything else as you said, also in order to gather opinions as much as possible...either to conduct any needed improvements or to arise self motivation on me to finish any project



Hi Garry,

Happy to help. As I drop in time to time I will share my experiences and knowledge that I think useful. However, I admit that my knowledge of armor is eroding as my main focus is air, railway, and naval. I've gathered some recent information but my main sources are now 20+ years old.
durruti16
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Milano, Italy
Joined: October 24, 2009
KitMaker: 134 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 05:21 AM UTC

On 18 February 1943, all vehicles were ordered to be painted in a base coat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 (dark yellow). Only small pieces of equipment were to retain their previous color. On top of the Dunkelgelb base coat, stripes of Rotbraun RAL 8017 (red-brown) and Olivgrün RAL 6003 (olive green) was applied.

http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

Panzerfaust was first delivered in August 1943

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust

MP44 was first delivered in October 1943

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44

Here the 250/8 stummel

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/leichte-schutzenpanzerwagen-75cm-sdkfz2508.htm







All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 06:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text


On 18 February 1943, all vehicles were ordered to be painted in a base coat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 (dark yellow). Only small pieces of equipment were to retain their previous color. On top of the Dunkelgelb base coat, stripes of Rotbraun RAL 8017 (red-brown) and Olivgrün RAL 6003 (olive green) was applied...



Hello again, Luca! Thanks for your kind reply of fact sharing and really, I didn't pay attention on such fact, but just quite interesting on completing this diorama. I may assume that all of my vehicles is 'unlucky' (not enough portion of paint to receive treatment for being camouflaged, seemed very forced, just kidding )... CMIIW

If not sufficient enough, can you help me with any better reason for this? Sorry for my English if not too good implemented, many thanks and can't wait for your next kind reply


Kind regards from Indonesia



Garry
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 06:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...thank for your appreciate of my dio! ...Sorry for the lack of information...



You're welcome and no problem at all

Cheers,


Garry
durruti16
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Milano, Italy
Joined: October 24, 2009
KitMaker: 134 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 10:41 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text


]

Hello again, Luca! Thanks for your kind reply of fact sharing and really, I didn't pay attention on such fact, but just quite interesting on completing this diorama. I may assume that all of my vehicles is 'unlucky' (not enough portion of paint to receive treatment for being camouflaged, seemed very forced, just kidding )... CMIIW

If not sufficient enough, can you help me with any better reason for this? Sorry for my English if not too good implemented, many thanks and can't wait for your next kind reply


Kind regards from Indonesia



Garry



Just think to the next work... My suggestion is that before starting you should choose a well identified period, and check carefully what you can use for that specific scenario. A preventive planning will help you to avoid any mistake !
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just think to the next work... My suggestion is that before starting you should choose a well identified period, and check carefully what you can use for that specific scenario. A preventive planning will help you to avoid any mistake !



...Not to intentionally escape from 'mistake' related to any items I already composed in this diorama, but just curious... Was my such reason acceptable enough? I just think that such condition may be available in the field, so I assume that my diorama still acceptable to 'tell' that it happened on the late war period in the Eastern Front. CMIIW

Anyway, I salute for your expertise related to the posted work of your SdKfz 250, that's a top notch masterpiece, Luca! I will learn a lot from your linked resources.

Many thanks again and have your nice modelling time!


Cheers


Garry
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


On 18 February 1943, all vehicles were ordered to be painted in a base coat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 (dark yellow). Only small pieces of equipment were to retain their previous color. On top of the Dunkelgelb base coat, stripes of Rotbraun RAL 8017 (red-brown) and Olivgrün RAL 6003 (olive green) was applied...



Hello again, Luca! Thanks for your kind reply of fact sharing and really, I didn't pay attention on such fact, but just quite interesting on completing this diorama. I may assume that all of my vehicles is 'unlucky' (not enough portion of paint to receive treatment for being camouflaged, seemed very forced, just kidding )... CMIIW

If not sufficient enough, can you help me with any better reason for this? Sorry for my English if not too good implemented, many thanks and can't wait for your next kind reply


Kind regards from Indonesia



Garry



Hello all! To whom interested to discuss about this topic, and also not to hide away from my possible mistake intentionally, I just find another resource related to possibility of winter whitewash application for some vehicles during 1944-1945. Refer to book of Armor At War Series 7048 "Battle on Two Fronts 1944-45" by Tom Cockle (published by Concord Publications Company) on page 52; 2nd photograph and it's said that:

"The crew of this Sd.Kfz.251/1 scramble aboard their vehicle during the winter of 1944-45. The half-track is finished in a coat of winter whitewash camouflage paint leaving a small rectangle of the base color where the tactical number '232' is painted on the side of the storage bins..."

So, by using similar assumption that reflect such SdKfz 251/1 as 'vehicle' at that time, I think it's fine to paint my SdKfz 250 "Stummel" also with winter whitewash and there's no historical accuracy degraded or neglected! CMIIW


Best regards,


Garry
durruti16
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Milano, Italy
Joined: October 24, 2009
KitMaker: 134 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 01:56 AM UTC

yes, in winter 1944 / 45 the whitewash was applied, but the basecoat was not gray, but yellow or three tone camo. Panzer gray ended at the beginnin of 1943.
FAUST
#130
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 10:04 PM UTC
Selamat Siang Ricky

I have read all through the thread again. I noticed I missed some steps since my last visit. I think you have made a good diorama. Especially those figure replacements you did make the scene much more believable. It is fun to see how much you are improving with every project. I like that bit of road where the figures are standing around with the ruts and tracks in it.

That said there are some minor nitpicks like the date your diorama takes place weapons not yet existing for colors of vehicles and vice versa that others pointed out but I say take that knowledge with you to the next diorama and show us more cool stuff.

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


yes, in winter 1944 / 45 the whitewash was applied, but the basecoat was not gray, but yellow or three tone camo. Panzer gray ended at the beginnin of 1943.



Hello Luca, I raise the white flag up! Thanks for your additional brief explanation, I just think that my assumption was sufficient enough and no longer debatable, but I realize that as much closer to the historical accuracy was the most important thing beside fun, right?

Just for sharing, currently I'm in process (again! ) gaining more information from book of 'Armor At War Series' published by Concord Publications Company as I told before. Hope that I will get better knowledge for the future project, especially for the camouflage application at each war period Have your nice day and I will bookmark one of your stunning work showing one version of SdKfz 250: SS and Stummel 250/8 - modifief


Warm regards


Garry
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 - 04:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Selamat Siang Ricky

I have read all through the thread again. I noticed I missed some steps since my last visit. I think you have made a good diorama. Especially those figure replacements you did make the scene much more believable. It is fun to see how much you are improving with every project. I like that bit of road where the figures are standing around with the ruts and tracks in it.

That said there are some minor nitpicks like the date your diorama takes place weapons not yet existing for colors of vehicles and vice versa that others pointed out but I say take that knowledge with you to the next diorama and show us more cool stuff.

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker



So many thanks for your time to visit my post, Robert! Thanks also for your kind compliments and nice to know that I already in the right path on several points. Furthermore, as Luca told me to gain better information about the applied camouflage, yup... I realize that was a minus point that still need to be improved in the future.

Anyway, I like the way you inspired to say "Selamat siang", I'm surprised! Of course, both of our country have a very close historical relationship and I think our discussion, right now, in this forum, was the representation of a very good deal at this modern day. I will learn a lot and can't wait to participate on another interesting discussion and sharing. Have your nice modelling day, friend Robert Blokker!

Goedenavond



Warm regards from Indonesia


Garry
t-bolt
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Indonesia
Joined: October 30, 2013
KitMaker: 13 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 28, 2013 - 09:08 PM UTC
Hi Garry,

Your diorama looks good, and it is even better after you replace some of the figures.

And I really like the mud. it looks really dirty and realistic.
Can you share some tips on how do you make it?
All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 02:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Garry,

Your diorama looks good, and it is even better after you replace some of the figures.

And I really like the mud. it looks really dirty and realistic.
Can you share some tips on how do you make it?



Thank you so much t-bolt! I'm so sorry for my late reply, also for your latest PM, I will reply it soon. Yes, several criticism, even hard , makes me have adequate reason to replace them anyway and yeah... fortunately, as a final result, such new figures gave me different impressions related to the theme of this diorama.

My pleasure to share about the technique about the making of the mud but my apologize for no related pics since I didn't document the process of painting.

First ---
Create the typical flat ground only as the basis of the entire ground base by using modelling clay.

Second ---
Start to shape a rough surface of the soil, also by using the modelling clay. Use the different color of such clay from the first step. The rough surface can be applied by using any blunt tools that nailed frequently onto the half-dried clay.

Third ---
Don't forget to create the effect of vehicles' trail and figures' footsteps, if you willing to place them onto, by using each type of vehicles' track links and sample of figures' boot, that gently sticked onto the surface for a moment.

Fourth ---
Start to paint overall mud surface with burnt umber.
t-bolt
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Indonesia
Joined: October 30, 2013
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 11:44 PM UTC
Hi Garry,

Thanks for the reply.
What kind of modelling clay do you use?
Where do you get it in Indonesia?




All_You_Can_Kit
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Jakarta Raya, Indonesia
Joined: August 22, 2012
KitMaker: 599 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2014 - 03:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Garry,

Thanks for the reply.
What kind of modelling clay do you use?
Where do you get it in Indonesia?







Hello t-bolt, sorry for my very late reply.. Life was so very complicated several months ago. Just check your PM right? Let me know if you successfully get those great stuffs ok?

Kind regards


Garry