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Armor/AFV: Early Armor
WWI and other early tanks and armored cars.
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FT-17's found in Junk Yard in Afghanistan
BroAbrams
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 03:06 PM UTC
I just saw on the news where two WWI era US FT-17's were found by US soldiers rumaging through a junk yard in Afghanistan. The experts have no idea how they came to be there, they cannot find any serial numbers to tack them at all.

Some of you will recall that this is the tank commanded by General George Patton when he was still Lieutenant Patton in the first world war. They have been graciously donated by the Afghan Government to the Patton Tank Museum at FT. Knox, Kentucky.

rob
TreadHead
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 03:39 PM UTC
WOWWWW!!!!! ..what a find! I just LOVE news like that. :-) :-) :-)

...kinda make's you wonder what might be lurking in the salvage yard's of mother Russia!

Tread.
cdave
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 05:55 PM UTC
Hey Rob,

I read somewhere that the Afghanistans had their first armor kill with the British FT-17. The tank was positioned in Kabaul for most of the years and was there up through the Taliban regiem. As far as I know, this may be the origin of the tank.

I will search some of the Afghani web sites that I am doing some research on Mohammed Amin Wardak for the Northern Allience.

Dave
chip250
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 06:33 PM UTC
Thats actually very cool! What a cool find!

~Chip :-)
cdave
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 06:50 PM UTC
OK guys,

The research bug was gettign to me, so I found a coule of sites for this informaiton.

First, the article about one of two FT-17's found in a junk yeard. One of these is being sent to Ft. Knox. http://defendamerica.mil/articles/feb2003/a022703b.html

Now, here is the real kicker, within this article, there is a 1988 photo of onbe of the FT-17's with some Afghani's standing near-by:
Ther full areticle can be found here, but one will ahve to translate. It does account (my guess) for the two FT-17 kills. http://www.defesanet.com.br/ft17/parte1.htm

Have fun!
Dave
kglack43
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Posted: Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 11:57 PM UTC
I read in one of the articles you linked to, we had to ask the french government if we could have one of em'.
Hmmm... thought they were'nt involved in this war. Nice links anyway. Had me serching the military site for a few minutes.

Kevin
BroAbrams
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 01:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One of these is being sent to Ft. Knox.



They now have both of them. I was watching the locsl Fox station and they sent someone to Knox with a camera crew and the pictures were great! The Museum director said they still had the original cammo on them.

Rob
PaulHanson
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 03:27 AM UTC
OK, everybody's wrong: they aren't FT17's, they are FT18's. Here's the link to Charles Lemons' posts on AFV-News.

http://http://www.activevr.com/afv/cgi_bin/web-bbs/webbbs_config.pl/read/42866

Charles Lemon's is the Patton Museum Curator.

PH
MLD
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 03:37 AM UTC
I think there was a pic or two in each of the old concord Armor of the Afghanistan war volumes as well.
If I remember rightly they were labled as -17s there too.

Had to go check...
The -17 pic above in isn he Armor in Afghanistan 79-89 book and there are pics of other oddities and ancients in the Armor of the Afghanistan Was (Zaloga # 2009)

Mike
PaulHanson
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 03:39 AM UTC
OK, link doesn't want to work so here's the text from CL's post:

There has been a lot of discussion (even at the time) as whether there is such a thing as the FT18. The French sources note the FT17, the first version of which had a cast machinegun turret, but which was replaced by a riveted "Omnibus" turret - which could take either the Machinegun or the 37mm cannon. Renault also licensed the construction of the "FT" to SOUMA and Berloit (sp?) as well as another company whose name eludes me at this point. Berloit sucessfully created another version of the "cast" or rounded turret - this one an "Omnibus" pattern. A number of sources in the 1920s and later refer to this cast turret model as the FT model 1918 or alternately the FT18. Icks mentions this in his notes on the FT series. The American forces used both the FT17 and the FT18 Light Tanks during the war. Again, if you accept the designation, the FT18 refers to the later pattern (Omnibus) Cast or Rounded turret. The flat sided turrets are FT17. The spoked wheels are a late war adaption, again appearing only on the FT18 - but not all FT18 have the spoked wheels (That's where I was wrong Garry - sorry). Again, the spoked wheel version was also purchased by the Americans. We have photographs in our collection of the FT18 in American hands in 1918-1919.

If you go to AFV-News this thread is on Page 2 about halfway down and there are earlier threads when CL talks about finding them and getting them designated for the Museum.

PH
tazz
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 04:18 AM UTC
wow thats so cool...
i also like news like this.
here on long island.
my aunt use to work for the state at the metal hostipal.
and they dug up a tank there.
casue the tank was used to haul stuff around
cdave
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 04:59 AM UTC
Paul,

Nice post regarding the true designation of the FT-18.

That said, I think you will be barking up the same wrong tree as me when someone talks about the "JS" vehicles or the "M" designation of Russian AFV's.

THe general populence will call it what ever they want. The fact that they (like me) miss-quoted the FT--18 as a FT-17 is just that. Every one calls the Joseph Stalin heavies as JS, yet is was IS. Oh well, just a thought........ #:-)

Thanks for the note regarding this lil bugger. Will check out a private collectors piece later next month to see if he has a FT-17 or FT-18.

Dave
PaulHanson
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 01:05 PM UTC
Hi Dave;

I realize that also. I just posted the latest info I found and hope people were interested.

PH
cdave
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Posted: Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 04:37 PM UTC
Paul, I am/was/is interested. i just was having a bit of fun with the subjct matter.

Dave
Katyusha
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 01:39 AM UTC
Wait..Why would the talibans be using a wwI tank?
irocarmy88
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Posted: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:26 PM UTC
Might be old news, but see my gallery about finding armor in Iraq
Also see:
http://community.webshots.com/user/irocarmy88
tankcurator
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Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 08:45 AM UTC
We, at the Patton Museum, have already begun restoration of one of the FT18 Light Tanks and the machinegun turret is on temporary display inside the museum right now. Hopefully (for those of you attending the Armor Conference this year, we will have the hull and turret of the other FT18 on display for viewing at the conference.

C. Lemons
Curator
BroAbrams
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Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 09:14 AM UTC
Kick A$$, from the horses mouth himself!

Rob
vandelay
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Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:55 AM UTC
I can't believe we got an actual tank currator as a member on this site. That rocks. Thanks, Mr. Curator dude!
jonnysocko
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 07:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OK guys,

The research bug was gettign to me, so I found a coule of sites for this informaiton.

First, the article about one of two FT-17's found in a junk yeard. One of these is being sent to Ft. Knox. http://defendamerica.mil/articles/feb2003/a022703b.html

Now, here is the real kicker, within this article, there is a 1988 photo of onbe of the FT-17's with some Afghani's standing near-by:
Ther full areticle can be found here, but one will ahve to translate. It does account (my guess) for the two FT-17 kills. http://www.defesanet.com.br/ft17/parte1.htm

Have fun!
Dave



Gee! it looks like they we're still using the tank? That's real weird! Do you guys realize how rare these are? and to be using one in 1988 is just, well you know.

B.H.
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 08:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

wow thats so cool...
i also like news like this.
here on long island.
my aunt use to work for the state at the metal hostipal.
and they dug up a tank there.
casue the tank was used to haul stuff around



I've seen that, it was a M5a3 I think, I was building the tamiya kit when I saw the article.....

It was actually an M4A3E8 with M2 dozer: http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/Tank_Ordnance.htm
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 10:57 PM UTC
Interesting....
makes me wonder what's been buried at the state hospital I work at............. ???? .......