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Armor/AFV: Early Armor
WWI and other early tanks and armored cars.
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Mk IV Male scale drawings?
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
Joined: October 26, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 11:40 AM UTC
Hi fellas! As a newbie to this site, I wanted to start out of the gate with a question; does anyone know where I can get good scale drawings of the British Mk IV Male tank? I have a desire to scratch one up in 1:16 scale or so. I suppose if worst comes to worst I can always scale up the Emhar kit to get overall proportions if necessary.


Thanks a bunch,
Kevin
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 06:56 PM UTC
Maybe this may help somewhat ?

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/77200/77218/77218_mark4_tptank.htm

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/77200/77217/77217_mark4_tank.htm

Frenchy
windysean
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 02:28 AM UTC
Kevin, that's an AWESOME idea! And, Frenchy, is there anything you cannot find? Amazing.
-Sean H.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 04:33 AM UTC
Google George Bardfords work
He has a WW1 armour book with drawings that aught to be more usable.
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

He has a WW1 armour book with drawings that aught to be more usable.



I agree about the limited "usefulness" of these drawings (made in 1922 ! )

Here's G.Bradford's WW1 book :


Frenchy
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 10:44 AM UTC



Well they certainly won't hurt;... thanks a bunch. I've already snatched a bunch of photos from the web of the Mk IV, and have a few references, but more is always better.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 11:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

He has a WW1 armour book with drawings that aught to be more usable.



I agree about the limited "usefulness" of these drawings (made in 1922 ! )

Here's G.Bradford's WW1 book :


Frenchy



I never heard of this series before, I'll give it a look. So far, these are the best two reference books I have in my book stash. Between these and the Emhar kit, It ought to be real doable I'd think.



Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 - 06:54 AM UTC
PM sent Kevin

Frenchy
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 - 10:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

PM sent Kevin

Frenchy


Received, thanks again.
ianclasper
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 10:30 AM UTC
Another publication that could be useful is TANKOGRAD No 1003


Beute-Tanks British Tanks in German Service Vol 1

Although it does not contain any drawings, it does have some very good photos of the various captured British Tanks, mostly Mark IVs.
Magpie
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 11:01 AM UTC
If your needing it mate I can fairly easily turn those clipart images into a scale AutoCAD drawing for you and create dimensioned drawings or simply plot you a 1/16 scale drawing.

PM me if you are interested.

PS found a fairly good image on Blueprints dot com
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 03:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Another publication that could be useful is TANKOGRAD No 1003


Beute-Tanks British Tanks in German Service Vol 1

Although it does not contain any drawings, it does have some very good photos of the various captured British Tanks, mostly Mark IVs.



Thanks, looks very cool, but I think I now have enough to proceed.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 03:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If your needing it mate I can fairly easily turn those clipart images into a scale AutoCAD drawing for you and create dimensioned drawings or simply plot you a 1/16 scale drawing.

PM me if you are interested.

PS found a fairly good image on Blueprints dot com


I appreciate the thought; I run AutoCAD 2005 on my home machine, but I think I've got enough data now.

Thanks again,
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, October 31, 2011 - 06:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Between these and the Emhar kit, It ought to be real doable I'd think.



DANGER, DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!

The Emhar kit is generally considered an inaccurate POS! I really wouldn't be using it for much of anything.

The shape of the sponsons is waaay off. The hull shape isn't right, the track run shapes are off and the location of the plate boundaries (i.e. the rivet lines) is also off. Oh, and the tracks are rubbish, too.

You need a proper set of drawings. I think the Tank Museum at Bovington has a drawings pack on the Mk IV. Bellona Prints Vol 14 has good 1/76 drawings.

Don't use the Emhar kit as a reference without double checking everything against at least two other sources (in which case why use that crappy kit! )

Paul
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 10:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Between these and the Emhar kit, It ought to be real doable I'd think.



DANGER, DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!

The Emhar kit is generally considered an inaccurate POS! I really wouldn't be using it for much of anything.

The shape of the sponsons is waaay off. The hull shape isn't right, the track run shapes are off and the location of the plate boundaries (i.e. the rivet lines) is also off. Oh, and the tracks are rubbish, too.

You need a proper set of drawings. I think the Tank Museum at Bovington has a drawings pack on the Mk IV. Bellona Prints Vol 14 has good 1/76 drawings.

Don't use the Emhar kit as a reference without double checking everything against at least two other sources (in which case why use that crappy kit! )

Paul


Thanks for the input Paul. This may sound silly, but I doubt the average person would recognize something being out of proportions a little. I'll mostly be doing this for myself, and the majority of my friends could care less, let alone know the difference. I'll try to get it as accurate as possible of course (within my ability to do so), and I believe I have a good (decent anyway), handle on it. The Crowood book I have on British WWI tanks has some decent material to draw from also. What would your recommendation regarding best reference be? I see you used to edit Boresight, which I received a few copies of while I was an AMPS member.

Thanks a bunch,
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 01:26 PM UTC
I did a brief web search for Bellona prints, but found no retailers. Any ideas where I can find a copy?

Thanks,
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 01:43 AM UTC
Yeah, it's no surprise you couldn't find any Bellona prints, they've been out of print for 35+ years. Should have specified that.

I have almost all of them because I've been collecting armour books for 30+ years. They used to be much more common on guys' tables at shows 20+ years ago. Far, far less so now. I haven't seen one for sale at a show for a very long time.

Look for used booksellers. I like

www.bookfinder.com

Tens of thousands of used book sellers all linked to one database. Awsome for finding out of print stuff. Horrible for your wallet, of course, but that can't be helped, can it??

As for best references on the Mk IV, I'm sorry to say I'm not an expert on that vehicle m'self. I've never had occassion to do the research myself but I have the Polish book and find it, and the entire series, to be generally very good. If yuo were to add a plans pack from the Tank Museum, you couldn't go to far wrong. I may have a bunch of photos of the Mk IV I took at Bovington, but there are also Mk IV walk-arounds available on the net.

My main point was for you to not use the Emhar kit as a reference. The other things you're doing seem just right. If you want the Bellona print drawing of the Mk IV copied I can do that & put it in the mail for you if you like.

Paul
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 07:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yeah, it's no surprise you couldn't find any Bellona prints, they've been out of print for 35+ years. Should have specified that.

I have almost all of them because I've been collecting armour books for 30+ years. They used to be much more common on guys' tables at shows 20+ years ago. Far, far less so now. I haven't seen one for sale at a show for a very long time.

Look for used booksellers. I like

www.bookfinder.com

Tens of thousands of used book sellers all linked to one database. Awsome for finding out of print stuff. Horrible for your wallet, of course, but that can't be helped, can it??

As for best references on the Mk IV, I'm sorry to say I'm not an expert on that vehicle m'self. I've never had occassion to do the research myself but I have the Polish book and find it, and the entire series, to be generally very good. If yuo were to add a plans pack from the Tank Museum, you couldn't go to far wrong. I may have a bunch of photos of the Mk IV I took at Bovington, but there are also Mk IV walk-arounds available on the net.

My main point was for you to not use the Emhar kit as a reference. The other things you're doing seem just right. If you want the Bellona print drawing of the Mk IV copied I can do that & put it in the mail for you if you like.

Paul


Thanks Paul, that would be great. I'll PM you here shortly with a mailing address. I also contacted Bovington and asked about the plans pack.

Thanks again.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 07:35 AM UTC
I also did find several Bellona Prints, just not series 14. Right again, the copyright is/was 1965 on the two I acquired.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 02:32 PM UTC
OK Paul, I changed my mind (again), and ordered the plans pack from Bovington. I'm probably only going to do this once, so I might as well do it as best I can.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 09:28 AM UTC
I received the Bovington package yesterday. Not all I had hoped for, but enough to get a real good start on this effort. Between this package and the various books I have on the subject, it ought to be real doable.
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 04:44 PM UTC
Using the Bovington drawings as dimensional reference, Iíve created a CAD illustration of the basic hull side shapes to be used as a template for cutting .040 sheet. At least itís a beginning.

trooper82
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Scotland, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, January 04, 2013 - 12:54 PM UTC
Any updates on your progress with the Mk IV ?
Paul
Jagdtiger46
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 01:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Any updates on your progress with the Mk IV ?
Paul



No. Like a lot of my projects, my thoughts are grand, but my actions are not. It's still on my "to do" list though, that's for sure.