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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
How to model a T-54
bison126
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Correze, France
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:19 PM UTC



Hello Mauro,
it looks like those links are no longer valid. They all lead you to Russian text pages with information on various AFV.
Spiderfrommars
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:28 PM UTC
Yes, it's true Karl
But the idea of sloped armour was already known at the beginning of the war. Actually it's an idea which came from the design of ancient fortifications and city walls after the introduction of fire weapons.

The main difference is that a flatter tank, has armours with more acute angles, then the relative thickness of them is higher





According to this theory, it's more convenient using the torsion bar suspensions rather than the Christie ones. Christie suspensions need room for the springs, this space avoids obtainig a flatter hull.









This is another reason why, in my humble opinion, T54 can be considered as the first tank of modern era

cheers




Removed by original poster on 05/14/19 - 04:17:56 (GMT).
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 11:56 AM UTC
That's absolutely true I agree with you, but we have to consider that torsion bars (with any guide rollers and big wheels) requires a stronger hull structure, so the advantage of a simplier suspension is partally counter balanced.

Compare the small limit of the t-34 suspemsion arm...





...to the "huge" one of the T-54/55 suspension






In my opinion the possibility to "flatten" the tank was the factor that made the difference


Quoted Text

In effect exactly the same as the T-34/76, a good simple design that could be produced in high numbers.




Yes, that's it. It was their philosophy. They started to have some problems when they needed to produce large series of tanks which had to be more sophisticated. All in all T-62 T-64, T-72 and T-80 haven't been so successful.

Here a great site with the evolution of T-54...lots of drawings there

http://ser-sarajkin.narod2.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut10/SuT5455/SuT5455105.htm
Removed by original poster on 05/14/19 - 04:18:42 (GMT).
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:56 PM UTC
I agree

Better tanks....have improved the helicopters

But The T-54 was conceived when a "Toatal" air war was a concept which wasn't applied (it didn't even have any Mg-s on the turret). The first Gulf war was probably the first example of it



tanknick22
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Help to produce a proper T-54. This is distinct from the T-55 just to make sure information is not confusing, as it sometimes can be. Anyone can add information. I will try to post updated information at the top of this thread to make a quick, one stop information source, but it will be kept intentionally focused as quick help. Detailed discussion will still remain in the thread itself. All contributions welcome.


why dont you just build trupeter's t-54?
tanknick22
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Look how the hull shape of the T-34/76 is almost identical to the T-55 hull shape in side profile.

Torsion bar suspension I tend to view as simply a low maintenace solution to a problem, a solution that also lends itself very well to mass production on a very large scale.

The Torsion bar system has fewer moving parts, its much simpler is design, and is perfect for mass production.

The Russians were in effect with the T-55 preparing for another conflict, I dont think they viewed the end of WW2 as the 'End', they were simply preparing for yet another conflict, and this time they planned to be ready.

The T-54/55 was designed from the outset to be produced on a very large scale, hit your enemy with high numbers, shock tactics,

In effect exactly the same as the T-34/76, a good simple design that could be produced in high numbers.



there there was another tank you forgot about that was put in to use in the closing months of ww2 it was the t-44
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:03 PM UTC
[/quote]
there there was another tank you forgot about that was put in to use in the closing months of ww2 it was the t-44[/quote]

In my first comment I said..."T-44 the Grandfather"

You're right Nick, it was little diffuse, but it represents an important evolution step.
As you can see in this drawing, it was quite close to a T-34/85...but it was lower!



Here the armour schemes from the T-34/76 to T-55. As you can notice T-44 was the Link which connected the T-34/85 from the T-54

T34/76-85



T-44


T-54 1947





T-54-1949





T-54 A





T-55






Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

why dont you just build trupeter's t-54?



I have the Trumpeter T-54 B and I'd say that it's quite uncorrect in shape and it has rough details.
To have a good replica is better modifying the Tamiya T-55
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 07:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Hello Mauro,
it looks like those links are no longer valid. They all lead you to Russian text pages with information on various AFV.



I know Olivier... Unfortunately Tankmaster site has changed. Now all that interesting walkarounds are no more available
koalorka
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Canada
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2013 - 03:27 AM UTC
Has anyone verified the accuracy of the Legend T-54 update kit to the Tamiya kit?

What version of the T-54 does it claim to depict? And is the engine deck of the Tamiya still incorrect for this setup?

Thanks.
beachbm2
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Posted: Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 04:29 AM UTC
Kharkov you said "In my opinion the majority of Russian Armor that has been engaged in conflict in the modern era has been destroyed from the air, and not the ground.
In other words it has been taken out by air superiority and not by ground superiority."
I have to disagree with you on that. An Iraq Armored Brigade Commander stated after Desert Storm that he started with 54 Tanks after the air attacks he still had 49 after his brigade was engaged by the M1A1's of the US led attack he said he lost them all. So History does not agree with your assessment which is not historically accurate. Tanks Still Kill Tanks!
guni-kid
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 04:36 PM UTC
Since not all the pics are available anymore here's a shot of a T-44 currently standing in the WWII museum in Moscow. It is the T34/85 turret on a new hull. Rumor has it that bigger guns weren't possible with that construction.

guni-kid
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 04:37 PM UTC
And yes I admit: we're sliding very much off-topic here, so how about news on modelling the T-54?
pgb3476
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 06:05 PM UTC
It's similar to a T-34-85 turret, but not the same. Take a close look at that photo and compare it to a T-34-85.
guni-kid
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 - 06:44 PM UTC
Well, almost... Anyway, main gun seems to be the same... And so to get a bigger gun into working the whole turret layout needed to be newly tooled as far as I get it... not a tank construction engineer myself And what we see as a result might be the topic of this very blog: the T-54. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 09:25 AM UTC
T-44 was a new project to replace the T-34/85. Never really got much traction, limited production, because the T-34/85 was good enough at the time, and the Soviets did not want to interrupt the production lines. By the time they got around to looking at replacing their medium tanks, they had better designs, based somewhat on the T-44 hull, that lead to the T-54.
ninjrk
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Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 05:49 PM UTC
With the new Takom kits coming out, is one of them appropriate for a North Vietnamese T-54 from the '72 battles?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 06:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

With the new Takom kits coming out, is one of them appropriate for a North Vietnamese T-54 from the '72 battles?



Weren't the NVA "T54s" actually Chinese T-59s..?
namengr
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Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 08:26 PM UTC
From my readings, I believe they had both the Russian T-54 and Chinese Type59s. Wayne
ninjrk
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Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 11:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

With the new Takom kits coming out, is one of them appropriate for a North Vietnamese T-54 from the '72 battles?



Weren't the NVA "T54s" actually Chinese T-59s..?



I've seen references both ways and freely admit I don't know enough to know one way or the other!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 04:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

With the new Takom kits coming out, is one of them appropriate for a North Vietnamese T-54 from the '72 battles?



Weren't the NVA "T54s" actually Chinese T-59s..?



I've seen references both ways and freely admit I don't know enough to know one way or the other!



Or Chinese T-61s..? Whichever tanks they actually were, I read somewhere on this site that they were smaller than T-54s or T-55s. Can anyone help?
namengr
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Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 04:40 AM UTC
Supposedly they had some Type 67 light tanks, but only after they invaded Cambodia. They had the Type 63's that were similar to the PT-76. The Type 67 was a smaller version of the Type 59.

Jacques
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Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 04:52 AM UTC
The Type-62 was the smaller version of the Type-59. I am in process of doing a review of the Trumpeter kit.

For the NVA question, as of right now, there is no consensus on if there were only Type-59, only T-54, or a mix. Since there is no OOB ready Type-59, take a leap and build a T-54 as one.