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Ships by Class/Type: Destroyers
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HMS Bentinck
DutchBird
#068
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
AeroScale: 123 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 07:25 AM UTC
Hi guys,

these are images of my first construction project in 2 years or so. In part it was inspired by the "Stand by torpedoes!" campaign - something should tame the wave of S-boote and U-boats . So here is my attempt to do something about it...

This will be my attempt to convert Trumpeter's USS England (DE-635) into the HMS Bentinck (a Captain class frigate based on a Buckley class destroyer).

Work done so far:








This is how she stands so far. I will be using the WEM conversion set. Impression of the kit so far - a little flash, hull parts do not fit perfectly, and you have to like sanding, due to all the ejector pin marks on the underside of the platforms.

Now here is a pic of the original:



Circled in red the major issues I have come across, and some of the questions I have/had and elements to convert. So if you can help me out, it would be appreciated.

1) What camouflage scheme is this? Is this an American scheme, or a British scheme? What are the colors used? And is there any image of the starboard side (and preferrably stern) of this scheme?

The info at navsource.com suggests that this picture was originally taken at sometime during the work-up of the vessel.

2) Only one gun tub is mounted mid-ships on each side.

3) No 20mm guns each side of B-gun (I missed that one ). It can still be corrected.

4) I wondered what the radar on top of the mast would be. According to navsource it is the HF/DF radar. So I'll put that one in top.

5) A crow's nest is mounted on the mast.

My build so far looks like this (issues circled), and indeed I noticed my first mistakes (20mm gun positions each side of B-gun should have been removed). Note that the superstructure is not yet attached to the hull.





Thanks for looking and any help would be appreciated.




Harm
RedDuster
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,853 posts
AeroScale: 118 posts
Posted: Monday, May 03, 2010 - 10:58 PM UTC
Hi Harm,

I am researching this one too, so far I have only other pic I have found on the net is not much help as it is poor resolution & show's the same side.

link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Bentinck.jpg

I think, but I am certain in every case, the Torpedoe tubes were removed prior to entering Royal Navy service, along with the 20mm gun tub on the quarter deck.

I don't have my RN camo references to hand, will check and revert, but it looks to be an RN Scheme

Will post any further info I dug up

Si

DutchBird
#068
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
AeroScale: 123 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Harm,

I am researching this one too, so far I have only other pic I have found on the net is not much help as it is poor resolution & show's the same side.

link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Bentinck.jpg

I think, but I am certain in every case, the Torpedoe tubes were removed prior to entering Royal Navy service, along with the 20mm gun tub on the quarter deck.

I don't have my RN camo references to hand, will check and revert, but it looks to be an RN Scheme

Will post any further info I dug up

Si




Hi Simon,

thanks for the reply. I have been looking further, and this class is a mess.

The Wiki pic seems to be the only one around (navsource has three different images of the same photograph, one much better than the others).

I have also come to the conclusion that this scheme is British (the comments on Navsource.org suggested different (!)). My guess would be Western Approaches, or Admiralty disruptive. The only other ships with a white and blue/green scheme I have come across are British, and most of those wear this particular scheme. My guess is that the starboard side has white with a blue/green "arch", as that is the only similar colour scheme I have come across, and it seems to be unique for British destroyers (bad photograph, but I hope you get the idea).

http://www.navsource.org/archives/06/076.htm


My guess is that the scheme is white with blue camouflage on top. These are the colours I am going to use anyway.


What I have dug up in the mean time:

The HMS Bentinck was built at the same shiphyard as the USS Buckley (DE-51) and planned as DE-52, and thus the second ship in its class. The Buckley also misses the two tubs for the 20mm guns in front of the bridge (astride B-gun). They are the only two vessels, it seems, who miss these. Similarly, they seem to be the only one to miss the foremost 20mm gun tubs near the stack (the higher placed ones).

So I guess images of the USS Buckley can help as well.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/06idx.htm

Looking at other images of the site, the variation of what happened with the weapons stations abaft the funnel is great. I have yet to see an image of a ship with the Bofors guns (which allegedly some ships had placed there). I have seen them with no 20mm guns abaft the stern, or 20mm guns in the 'high' tub on top of the quarterdeck as well as just a little further behind, or either of these positions without guns. I have also seen them where tubs themselves seem not to have been removed at all (just the weapons and the directors).


There also seems to have been variation in the placement of the rafts/floats. Some seem to have them in the same position as the USS Buckley in the Trumpeter kit, others on the 'racks' provided in the WEM PE set.

Also, it seems that many of these frigates had the ship number painted across the stern - at least a number of the vessels showing the stern show the number painted on (also seen on images available through navsource.org.

I should be able to get the book on the Captain class by Friday from the library. I'll let you know what I can dig up in it.

Thanks for the reaction, and good luck with your own project!

Harm
RedDuster
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,853 posts
AeroScale: 118 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:26 AM UTC
Just been studying those pics again, neither of them show Davits and a motor boat fitted on the port side, from that they look to be taken around the time of Hand over to the RN.

The Wikipedia pic gives the location as Lisahally, Northern Ireland, it is difficult to make out, but the Camo appears the same as does the fit.

This get's more interesting

Will post anything else I dig up.

Si
RedDuster
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 01, 2010
KitMaker: 6,853 posts
AeroScale: 118 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 09:01 PM UTC
Have managed to dig up a bit more on the camoflage scheme.

Warship perspectives, Camoflage vol3 (Royal navy 1943-44) on P7 it shows a line drawing of a Buckley the (Port & Starboard) & the port side matches the navsource pics of HMS Bentink. It is the US scheme that a number of the vessels were delivered in. The starboard side is unfortunately not a mirror of the port.

The colours are described as "pale grey" and "sea blue"

This along with the lack of RN boats, & carley float layout would be prima face evidence that the photo on Navsource is likely to be Bermuda, just after the vessel was handed over to the Royal Navy.

The Lisahally pic also shows the same scheme, so I would hazzard a guess this was taken at the time she was being brought up to RN specifiaction.

Again this is deduction, no firm evidence, the majority of the clear photographs of the stern of captain class I have seen show the pennant number painted across the stern. Some, in some cases there is evidence the photograph has been censored, in others I don't know, but it the usual practice was to have a number there I intend to go with a number on mine.

The armerment on delivery to the RN, sweeping generalisation but tended to be basically as per US fit except with the torpedo tubes, quad 1.1" tub with 2 single 20mm on the quarterdeck and the 2 forward K guns on each side removed, at that time, in most cases the quad 1.1" tub & the director tub behind it were just left empty.

As the camoflage information to date is on that fit, I will go with that for my build.... Unless we turn up any new information on a later refit,

good luck

Si
DutchBird
#068
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
AeroScale: 123 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 11:33 PM UTC
Thank you Simon!

I think I am going to go with the same layout.... the Navsource pics will be my guide.

Good luck, and I am looking forward to yours!

Harm
DutchBird
#068
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
KitMaker: 1,144 posts
AeroScale: 123 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 12:25 AM UTC
Simon,

I dug up a little more:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=45163 (scroll down a bit).

It suggests that the 'sea blue' might actually be 'navy blue'

In WEM Colourcoats designation

5-N (Navy blue) or 5-S (Sea blue)
5-P (Pale grey)
Presumably also 20-B (Deck blue) for the decks and Norfolk 65A Anti fouling red.

Cheers,

Harm