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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Why does the M4 cost more than the Panther?
chuckster
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Missouri, United States
Joined: May 30, 2003
KitMaker: 289 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 03:10 PM UTC
I have seen this in several hobby stores. You can buy a 1/35 Tamyia M4 Sherman early version for $37 or a 1/35 Panther for $20. One would think the Panther would cost the same or more than the Sherman. Is the Sherman a higher quality release, and if so, is there a chance a Panter will be released of the same quality in the future?
cdave
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California, United States
Joined: June 08, 2002
KitMaker: 545 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 03:22 PM UTC
Hey Chuckster,

Are you sure about the correct kit? A new Tamiya Panther (say Kit #35176) and not the older Tamiya Panther (Kit # 35065)? If it is the later, save your money. Kit # 35065 is a trash!

2 comment!
Dave
kbm
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 16, 2003
KitMaker: 678 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:29 AM UTC
I just want to mention here that one person's trash is another person's gold. Chuckster, the cheap Panther is probably the old Tamiya Panther A. Tamiya does have a newer series of Panther G tanks (not sure of the numbers). However, I am working on the old Panther A right now and it has been a fun kit for me, a new returnee to the hobby, to build. I did not pay much for it and therefore felt safe experimenting with my first attempt at home-made zimmerit and drybrushing and other techniques. So, I would say it depends on what you are looking for as to whether or not the cheap Tamiya Panther is trash or not.
MLD
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Vermont, United States
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
AeroScale: 419 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:40 AM UTC
Old tool panther, great for practicing on... many simplified details and omissions -like not having inner roadwheels...-

DML's new tooled Panther A's go for about $30 this month from Squadron and are worth every penny.

Tamiya's G model Panthers , Early , Late and Steelwheeled (#'s 35170, 35174, and 35176) more recent releases and are orders of magnitude better kits than the old A.

Mike
(certified Panther nut)


Bribo
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Louisiana, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 205 posts
AeroScale: 2 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:57 AM UTC
Check out Hometown Hobbies. They have the new DML Panthers for between $23 and $30.
bf443
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Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:57 AM UTC
Im confident the Panther you refer to is original release in the seventies or eighties. What puzzles me (along your question of price) is why every time Tamiya re-releases these kits the price keeps going up. I remember buying the M3 Stuart for $7.50 in 1992 today the same kit is $15.00. I guess I need to hit the books and ponder this.
jejack2
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Maryland, United States
Joined: April 09, 2002
KitMaker: 322 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I remember buying the M3 Stuart for $7.50 in 1992 today the same kit is $15.00.



One word, INFLATION!! But back to the question at hand...When I first started out modeling (oh so many yrs ago..3 :-) ) I used to buy the cheap-o kits, like the M-5, the Panther, jeep, Hanomag...all the sub-$25 kits to practice on. I couldn't see spending $40 on something I was most likely going to screw up. I too practiced home-made zimmerit on that exact Panther model.
Now I have moved on to the nicer ones, now that I am semi-confident in my skills.
keenan
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Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
AeroScale: 74 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:13 AM UTC
I think I have at least two of the "old" Tamiya panther kits. I am going to use at least one to make one of the neato turret bunkers. The other, don't know for sure. That said, I remember when these "old" Tamiya kits were the best on the market, regardless of cost. It was either the Tamiya or next to nothing. Then the Gunze "High Tech" kits came along and you could build an accurate model OOB for only $135.00. Now we have kits of just about everything (Read Dragon's Leopold) at what I consider to be fair prices. I thought the Tamiya Pershing was over priced until I open the box, then, wow.

Sorry for the rant.

Shaun
Halfyank
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
AeroScale: 36 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 05:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I just want to mention here that one person's trash is another person's gold



I agree entirely kbm. I think that too many people turn their noses up at some kits. Yes the early Tamiya Panthers aren't up to current standards. On the other hand you can sometimes pick them up for $10. That's worth the price if you only use them for spare parts.

Some have mentioned practicing with this kit. Absolutely. Why spend three or four times as much for a newer kit and then "ruin" it with a not so great paint job or weathering. Why not try new techniques out on an older kit.

I view the campaigns on Armorama the same way. A chance to practice new techniques. I'll be using the least expensive kits I can for buy for both Barbrossa and the Halftrack campaign.
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 05:57 AM UTC
I saw this question and had the answer before I read the post.
Forgive I just have to say it... because it's cooler.
yagdpanzer
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Ohio, United States
Joined: August 21, 2002
KitMaker: 415 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 06:10 AM UTC
Ya gotta remember that the Tamiya kits from the 70's were the only game in town and they mostly looked like the vehicle we wanted to model. They have been surpassed by more modern kits, but they still are useful for new modelers to start out on.

Those older kits spawned the growth of aftermarket manufactures who provide us with all the PE and resin goodies.

My old Tamiya and Jagdpanther are on thier 4th paint job and different weathering experiments. I paid 600 Yen (US $1.72) for each for them, and I have gotten my money's worth out of them. All those old Tamiya kits gave me a lot of pleasure at the time and still do.

Heck, right now I'm using left over parts from The DML Pz111, AusF. E kit to upgrade the old
Tamiya Pz111, M/N kit . Cheap fun!

Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:23 AM UTC
I totally agree with the sentiment...many kits get a bad rap when they should not...trumpeters T-55 comes to my mind. I love the Tamiya T-55, but it is not worth $30 retail more than the Trumpeter kit.

I do, however, understand what is being said. The old Tamiya panther A is pretty sub-par for what would be expected these days if it were a new kit. And the price is getting too high for what is in the box...for $20 it better be good, but for $5-$10, it is a good kit to practice on. I find Tamiya's current trends very disturbing and I think they may put themselves in a tight spot...the japanese economy is is a fix too and raising prices on good but old kits is a way to get them to sit on shelves, ESPECIALLY when there are better kits out there...the M3 Stuart comes to mind. If the Tamiya M3 kept on selling for $7.50...hey, no problem, but it is not worth more than $10 period. Especially when the Academy kit is much better AND can be found for $20 easy. Heck, the Tamiya kit and the correct tracks for it cost more than the Academy kit alone...wonder if Mr. Tamiya has thought this all through...