Indiana,
United StatesJoined: May 09, 2008
KitMaker: 1,019 posts
AeroScale: 17 posts
Posted: Monday, June 21, 2010 - 03:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Back to the gnat bite, I'm afraid. I can't see modelling being anything like big enough to make them change their minds. Even if model shops can sell hoarded spoonsful of the stuff for more than the price of champagne, the overall volume won't get close to justifying the retention of the old production line.
I have a few bottles of Klear. I was impressed enough with it to want to stock up. But it can't be the only useful clear coat. We lived without it before someone had the 
moment; we'll live without it again.
It was more of a surprised type of response from them. My comment about putting a buzz in their ear was more a comment about non-traditional uses for their product in general which I got the impression they had not looked at before. Back when I was in the Army guys who were "serious" about their gear and always had extra boots. Most always had one pair that damn near shined like patent leather they used for certain occasions. I recall this was actually achieved with some kind of floor finish. I can't remember if it was Future or not even though I remember using it myself just to get a mediocre shine. Whenever you came up for guard duty, they Battalion CQ would inspect all the guards and the sharpest looking one was released from pulling guard duty, got the night plus got the next day off like those who actually pulled it. There may be dozens of off label uses for Future that cumulatively could account for something. While I agree with your comments about our fellow modeler who predicted sales would fall off dramatically as being overstated, -if anything tracking sales would show a spike over normal levels indicating people hoarding it- in my mind there's nothing wrong with my bringing the topic up to J&J. Andrew Carnegie, whose cost efficient and simple method of producing steel dramatically affected the entire world and helped bring about the modern age, learned how to do it in an off-hand conversation with a Scottish (I think) bullet maker. I would imagine many simple and useful as well as great and/or important things came about from simple, off the cuff questions or remarks. Sometimes an idea dissipates as quickly as the hot air that formed the words, sometimes not. Reality is only one's perception of it.
If it weren't for law enforcement and physics I would be unstoppable!
United KingdomJoined: January 16, 2007
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
AeroScale: 640 posts
Posted: Monday, June 21, 2010 - 01:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Has anyone actually seen it disappear from store shelves yet?
I have. Sainsbury's used to sell it, then switched to the new stuff. Asda held on longer but I gather may be nearly out of it now.
Quoted Text
During the course of speaking to several company reps I told them of it's use by modelers and they were quite surprised.
Not only had none ever heard of that application for it, but they were unaware of the concern in the modeling community about its reformulation or discontinuation. They were even more surprised to learn of its re packaging and resale at premium prices in some countries where modelers had trouble finding it.
I'm not at all suprised at their reaction. The usage of Klear by modellers must be a veritable gnat-bite compared with the volume used on floors. Someone on Britmodeller was speculating that the change from old to new formula would result in sales dropping by several orders of magnitude. If that wasn't a joke, it's certainly looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope.
Quoted Text
It may not affect anything, but I'd like to think it planted a buzz in their ear.
Back to the gnat bite, I'm afraid. I can't see modelling being anything like big enough to make them change their minds. Even if model shops can sell hoarded spoonsful of the stuff for more than the price of champagne, the overall volume won't get close to justifying the retention of the old production line.
I have a few bottles of Klear. I was impressed enough with it to want to stock up. But it can't be the only useful clear coat. We lived without it before someone had the
moment; we'll live without it again.
seán
never knowingly underscale
Fly Navy - Sail Army - Walk Sideways
England - West Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
AeroScale: 309 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 10:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Has anyone actually seen it disappear from store shelves yet?
It's gone from the shelves of the big supermarkets around my neck of the woods in Birmingham (England). I still see it from time to time,often in smaller stores. I saw some recently in a hardware store in Thame (Oxfordshire),whilst senior management was looking for garden lights.
I think that if it was an animal it would be on the red list for endangered species!
Cheers
Steve
Indiana,
United StatesJoined: May 09, 2008
KitMaker: 1,019 posts
AeroScale: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 08:22 AM UTC
Has anyone actually seen it disappear from store shelves yet?
As an aside, I sent a big bottle to a friend overseas last year. Apparently, it was very difficult to get where he lived and some hobby shops actually imported it, measured it out in small bottles and sold it for a pretty good chunk of change. In order to send it, I had to contact the company and get the paperwork that described its makeup, hazards, etc. to ship it by air. It turned out it was totally safe to do so with the US Postal Service. It went to Russia and the only trick there was to call it acrylic floor finish as opposed to floor wax which because of petroleum products in some cannot be imported there. During the course of speaking to several company reps I told them of it's use by modelers and they were quite surprised.
Not only had none ever heard of that application for it, but they were unaware of the concern in the modeling community about its reformulation or discontinuation. They were even more surprised to learn of its re packaging and resale at premium prices in some countries where modelers had trouble finding it. Says a lot when people go through those extremes to get a legal product!
It may not affect anything, but I'd like to think it planted a buzz in their ear.
If it weren't for law enforcement and physics I would be unstoppable!
Joined: June 01, 2010
KitMaker: 2 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, June 04, 2010 - 09:09 AM UTC
Auckland,
New ZealandJoined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 949 posts
AeroScale: 493 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 06:05 PM UTC
A question for Terri,
Did you get the 20gal drum ? be a sod of a thing to move
Chris
"A Geek is someone who has found something more interesting than sex."
Neil Degrasse Tyson
Merlin
Senior Editor
#017
United KingdomJoined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 08:35 AM UTC
Hi again
A frantic clean-up of my flat prior to moving sent me off on a fresh hunt for Klear to get the kitchen floor ready for inspection. I have to say, I still had no trouble finding the original formula (in fact, I couldn't see any of the hated new stuff anywhere), and supplies were so good I did the dirty deed and actually used some precious Klear on the lino! (It did a lovely job, and I've still got 7/8ths of the bottle left for its proper modelling use!)
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
#047
England - East Anglia,
United KingdomJoined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
AeroScale: 475 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 07:55 AM UTC
My local Morrisons has loads in stock,£2.50 each,I got 4
,better go and get somemore!
Major Caryle,
"Shall we have a go at the far end now,sir?"
Lt Colonel "Johnny" Frost,
"Having a go,is hardly text book terminology Harry"
Major Caryle,
"But you'll let us try sir?"
A Bridge Too Far
Lottery Campaign "Oh de Vichy"
United KingdomJoined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 719 posts
AeroScale: 691 posts
Posted: Friday, September 04, 2009 - 01:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Robert Dyas is another store that still has good stocks of real Klear. Grab it while you can...
Good tip Rowan, after trying everywhere I could think of, I found some in Robert Dyas this lunch-time.
England - West Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
AeroScale: 309 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi there
One thing I would advise to anyone hoarding a store of original Klear: keep it out of direct light. While I was down on the Island last weekend, I noticed that an old bottle had definitely clouded slightly compared with fresh stuff. It hadn't yellowed like some other varnishes, but was slightly "milky" after sitting on the shelf in daylight for a year or so.
Robert Dyas is another store that still has good stocks of real Klear. Grab it while you can...
All the best
Rowan
Good advice there Rowan, I have noticed a slight cloudiness in my current bottle. It's been in use for over two years and seems okay once applied to a model but I still keep my strategic reserve in the dark.
Steve
England - West Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
AeroScale: 309 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
i use future shine it works great 
Yep, over your side of the pond Pledge with future shine is the good old formula.
Burning ears Nige? Is it twenty bottles now!!!?
Steve
Indiana,
United StatesJoined: May 09, 2008
KitMaker: 1,019 posts
AeroScale: 17 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 02:47 PM UTC
i have become friends with a chap from Russia here on Armorama. he was about out of it and asked if i could get it for him. he told me that it was common that people would buy it from another country and then re-bottle it into small containers for resale at ridiculous prices. since every supermarket and department store here has it, i picked up a quart for him when i went to the store next time and shipped it to him. it was a bit of a hassle at first when the Post office gave me a bit of a run-around. i even took them in a bottle and the supervisor smelled it and said he thought it burned his eyes so was a no go. i persisted and downloaded the materials sheet from Johnson and Johnson's web site that detailed any associated hazards and special considerations and took it to the Post office. the sheet quite clearly said it was safe to handle and required no special shipping or handling and was completely unregulated. the manager agreed after seeing it but double checked with his higher ups anyway and it was cleared as OK to ship from all levels. they checked the Russian import laws and while they won't allow import of floor waxes, Future is not a wax but an acrylic sealant and i described it as acrylic sealant on the customs form. long story short, i had to double bag it because it was a liquid per postal regulations, which i would have done anyway. i boxed it carefully and off to the far eastern end of Russia it went. it took about 2 weeks to get there and arrived intact. so, as long as your country doesn't ban it being sent in and you have a willing friend in the US, you should be able to get it sent to you. all post offices have data books specifying what can and cannot be sent to your country. the large bottle i sent him cost about $6.00 USD and will last him for years.
If it weren't for law enforcement and physics I would be unstoppable!
Florida,
United StatesJoined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 01:54 PM UTC
i use future shine it works great
"From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of
tyrants and patriots."
- Thomas Jefferson
IPMS#47611
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United KingdomJoined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 09:44 AM UTC
Hi there
One thing I would advise to anyone hoarding a store of original Klear: keep it out of direct light. While I was down on the Island last weekend, I noticed that an old bottle had definitely clouded slightly compared with fresh stuff. It hadn't yellowed like some other varnishes, but was slightly "milky" after sitting on the shelf in daylight for a year or so.
Robert Dyas is another store that still has good stocks of real Klear. Grab it while you can...
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
#029
England - East Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 08:23 AM UTC
ouch ouch,,,,,burning ears
15 bottles of Klear stashed??,,not me Steve,,,,,,I like even numbers
Nige
It's not the same, better, but not the same...
England - West Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
AeroScale: 309 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 08:05 AM UTC
Klear as we know and love it is definitely discontinued in the UK though it seems some stocks are still available. Despite conflicting emails from SC Johnson it seems the replacement (again in the UK) is no good for models. I've not tried it myself but it has been tried. It simply does not do the same thing.
Jonners (on Britmodeller) has done some extensive testing, including air brushing, on his discovery (Holloway House Quick Shine) and it seems to perform at least as well as Klear and in some applications better. It is advertised as an acrylic floor polish which is, after all, what Klear was. Of course one thing he can't test is how well it will look long term, will it yellow for example. If you've run out of Klear and are looking for something similar it is probably worth a try.
Here it is.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/quick-shine!REG-floor-finish/F/C/cleaning-protecting/C/cleaning-protecting-clean-floors/product/20286I confess to having a couple of bottles (that's not 15 Lampie!!!!) of original Klear stashed but may give this stuff a try anyway. I'll let you know how I get on if/when I do.
Cheers
Steve
#042
England - North East,
United KingdomJoined: November 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,828 posts
AeroScale: 1,720 posts
Posted: Monday, August 31, 2009 - 09:07 AM UTC
I personally would like to say as I'm only reporting on what I've read.
In the UK, SC Johnson claim that the new Pledge Multi Surface Floor Wax with it's new formula can be used as a cleaning solution if diluted. This to me doesn't sound to promising for modelling applications and I've also read that it dries brittle.
However in the US, SC Johnson now call it Pledge Premium Floor Finish with Future Shine and claim "its the same great future formula, now just under the pledge name"
The best bet would be to test on and old kit you don't want first.
Modellers Creed: This is my toolbox. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My toolbox is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My toolbox, without me, is useless. Without my toolbox, I am useless.
United KingdomJoined: January 16, 2007
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
AeroScale: 640 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 06:22 AM UTC
Can anyone explain why the new stuff isn't suitable for models? I've got a bottle of Pledge Multi-Surface Wax (as opposed to Pledge with Future Shine) and it definitely smells different from Klear (Future). It is, nonetheless, a clear floor wax. So what effect does it have on models? Does it eat them, or something?
seán
never knowingly underscale
Fly Navy - Sail Army - Walk Sideways
England - East Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 10:10 PM UTC
A few weeks ago the local Asda store was selling it at £2.50 a bottle. I cannot remember the price I paid for the last bottle I bought over five years ago but it would be more like £3.50. Perhaps Asda are clearing out old stocks. Get it while you can.
England - East Midlands,
United KingdomJoined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 10:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Has anyone thought of using floor finish from the Jantioral field ? I used to do floors at one time and it is water based , or cleans up with water . Can also bemoved with windex or aimonia based cleaners . It comes in sizes of 2 liters all the way up 20 gal drums !
And it dries fast as well depending on how thick you put it on and after polishing be great for decals !!!! Just a thought .....................................
The answer is yes. Vectro Floor Polish is one that has been identified as a substitute but when I searched the internet I could not find anyone that sells it. Search for acrylic floor polish and you will find similar products fairly easily. The problem is that market for them is professional cleaning companies, hotels, hospitals, shopping centres, etc. It might be possible to order a single 5 litre container from some suppliers but really they are looking to sell it in boxes of 5 litre containers. My only reservation is wil it last? Will it start to blister or peel off in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years time?
Removed by original poster on 08/30/09 - 09:03:52 (GMT).
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United KingdomJoined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 04:03 AM UTC
Hi again
Well, they were still selling the classic Klear in the local hardware shop on the Isle of Wight last month, so I'd better nip out and try to buy up the remaining stock!
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
Alberta,
CanadaJoined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 03:27 AM UTC
Has anyone thought of using floor finish from the Jantioral field ? I used to do floors at one time and it is water based , or cleans up with water . Can also bemoved with windex or aimonia based cleaners . It comes in sizes of 2 liters all the way up 20 gal drums !
And it dries fast as well depending on how thick you put it on and after polishing be great for decals !!!! Just a thought .....................................
#042
England - North East,
United KingdomJoined: November 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,828 posts
AeroScale: 1,720 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 03:05 AM UTC
I've heard on the grape vine (and in it was covered in last months SAMI) that The Klear we all know and love has been re-branded and is a new formula. long story short if its got a different label and smells of lemon it won't work on models
All I can say is thank god I have 6 bottles in the stash after the last "Klear discontinuation rumours"
Modellers Creed: This is my toolbox. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My toolbox is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My toolbox, without me, is useless. Without my toolbox, I am useless.
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United KingdomJoined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 07:49 PM UTC
Hi Steven
According to SC Johnson's website, Klear is still available - they've simply rebranded it as
Pledge.
EDIT: Hmmm - I see there are reports that "Pledge - formerly known as Klear" isn't the same stuff at all, and is little use for modelling.
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
