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History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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alternate history?
hellbent11
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Kansas, United States
Joined: August 17, 2005
KitMaker: 725 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 09:10 PM UTC
I'm currently reading a book called "The Guns of the South" I picked up on vacation (please don't spoil it for me!) It's about a group going back in time and supplyinfg the Confederacy with AK-47's to change the tide of the Civil War.

I was wondering what you all thought or imagined as an alternate history situation? What alternate historical scenarios have you thought of?

It could be anything... I've always been curious as to what Germany would have done with an atomic weapon if someone had provided the right information...

Hellbent
jphillips
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 02:42 PM UTC
Turtledove's "Guns of the South" is probably the best alt history story I've ever read. It was the first of his books I read, and after I finished it, I was hooked. His imagination is incredible, and he writes very well.
There is little doubt that if Hitler had gotten his hands on nuclear weapons he would have fitted them to his "Vergeltungswaffen" and struck at the Soviets and the West. Nuclear weapons are probably the only thing that could ever bring about the conquest and occupation of the Americas by an overseas enemy.
Instead of driving Europe's anti-Nazi scientists into exile, Hitler might have arrested them, together with their families, and forced them to develop nukes for Germany by holding their loved ones as hostages.
Turtledove wrote some great series, but for another fine stand-alone book, try "In the Presence of Mine Enemies" after you finish "Guns of the South." It will give you a look at a frightening world in which Hitler did get hold of nuclear bombs.
hellbent11
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Kansas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 11:06 PM UTC
I'll have to check that out! That sound great as I'm really enjoying Guns of the South.

Thanks for the tip! Hellbent
russamotto
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Utah, United States
Joined: December 14, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 11:45 AM UTC
Based on a discussion at work, what could have been the outcome if Germany had tried to recruit the Russian prisoners to "liberate" their homeland from communism? What if Hitler had made Germany a safe haven for Jews instead of the opposite? Or what if Japan had attacked Russia instead of the US?
LuckyBlunder
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Kansas, United States
Joined: February 02, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 07:19 PM UTC
"Based on a discussion at work, what could have been the outcome if Germany had tried to recruit the Russian prisoners to "liberate" their homeland from communism?"

Russ - You just hit the nightmare scenario. The German Army was hailed as a liberator in the Baltic States and large parts of white Russia and Ukraine. Suddenly the manpower problems of the Germans are solved and Reds are driven back across the Urals. Large armies are available to keep the conquered territories in check while regular German army units are moved to the west to bolster Italy and the Atlantic coast. All of the industry, natural rescources and agriculture are now available to Germany. Turkey allies itself with Germany and pro-German middle eastern countries become satellites. It's highly problematic if the British could have maintained their army in North Africa. After all this, what would Franco have done? An openly allied Spain would have probably meant the loss of Gibralter and therefore the Med. Suez falls.

The Japanese control the Pacific coast of all Asia. India decides neutrality is their best option and kick the British out.

Hitler, not really wanting to attack the British Isles, pauses and consolidates. There is no letter from Einstein to Roosevelt warning of the atomic bomb.

I think I'll go take a nap and have a nice quiet nightmare.

Steve
dioman13
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Indiana, United States
Joined: August 19, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 05:12 AM UTC
alternate histories, coulda, shoulda, woulda, ain't it great. check out harry's other books, the lost legion and world at war.
adamant
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New Zealand
Joined: March 25, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 09:03 PM UTC
One could speculate on the world status quo post ww2 had Operation Market Garden succeed, would there have been a iron curtain or communist China, Korea or Viet-Nam war? Could some one please explain why communist Russia was allowed to advance into Berlin before the west? baffling to say the least, with my limited understanding the allies had the power to determine the outcome, seems strange.
spooky6
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Sri Lanka
Joined: May 05, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 07:46 AM UTC
James, Roosevelt had his heart set on forming the United Nations after the war, and he needed Stalin's cooperation for that. Berlin was the price Stalin demanded. Churchill was outraged, but there was nothing he could do -- Britain was too dependant on the US. Power in Europe had changed hands.
adamant
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New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, April 17, 2009 - 01:12 AM UTC
Thanks David can start a new discussion at work now and fascinate people with my new found knowledge
Removed by original poster on 04/19/09 - 15:09:44 (GMT).
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 04:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Could some one please explain why communist Russia was allowed to advance into Berlin before the west? baffling to say the least, with my limited understanding the allies had the power to determine the outcome, seems strange.



Look up the Tehran, Yalta, and Postdam Conferences to understand how post-WWII Europe was divided up. These were the 3 conferences betweeen the US, Britain, and the Soviet Union that decided who would get what and why.

Usually, actual history is more interesting that anternate history (fiction and make-believe in my book) when you actually look into it and find out why things happened the way they did. I was a history major in college, what do you expect.
bizzychicken
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Could some one please explain why communist Russia was allowed to advance into Berlin before the west? baffling to say the least, with my limited understanding the allies had the power to determine the outcome, seems strange.



Look up the Tehran, Yalta, and Postdam Conferences to understand how post-WWII Europe was divided up. These were the 3 conferences betweeen the US, Britain, and the Soviet Union that decided who would get what and why.
.

The Soviets lost 300,000 troops taking Berlin, The US wanted to take as many of its boys home. Berlin was going to be in the Soviets area after the war, Starlin wanted Berlin, he thought it the ultimate prize for the rape of Russia and Churchill, like as all ready been said was horrifide, but couldn't call the shots by then. Another good book is SS-GB by Len Deighton. Its about Germany beating the British and the occurpation of the UK
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 06:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Soviets lost 300,000 troops taking Berlin...



It wasn't quite so drastic. Still a large number of losses though.

According to Grigoriy Krivosheev's work based on declassified archival data, Soviet forces sustained 81,116 dead for the entire operation of the Battle of Berlin.
squeeky1968
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 06, 2006
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2009 - 12:01 PM UTC
If you like your what-if books then check out "Third Reich Victorious","The Moscow Option" or"If Britain Had Fallen",all published by Greenhill Books.I`ve got all three of these and have re-read several times,with various authors painting alternative versions of history it`s a terrifying glimpse of what could have been.