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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Aeroscale P-47 Thunderbolt SIG
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 11:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nigel,

Did you find out what color Lorene's outfit is"? One of the decal sets I own shows blue, the other is brown.

-Rex



Hi Rex.
The brown is closest to the original artwork.
Russ also sent me a copy of the photo on which the original artwork was based.

Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 11:31 PM UTC
Just to further clarify the colour of the 61st FS P-47M's, ( as if any was needed now IMHO), a further extract from one of Russ Kylers emails.

The different 61st
color schemes that are floating around the web sites are of someone imagining WHAT the color was and making their own wild guesses.
"FLAT BLACK" is flat black. (Period). You can ask any artist & they will tell you that all colors take on a slightly different color under
different lighting conditions; hence the wild differences that people dream up !!!!!
rdriscoll
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 11:44 PM UTC
Nigel,

I am glad that you found someone who was definite about the color scheme. I had hoped the dress was blue. I have the PYN UP sheet with Lorene.
Anybody know if they repainted the stenciling in red?
I noted in a color photograph that the P-47M from the 62nd FS had Yellow Stenciling.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 05:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nigel,

I am glad that you found someone who was definite about the color scheme. I had hoped the dress was blue. I have the PYN UP sheet with Lorene.
Anybody know if they repainted the stenciling in red?
I noted in a color photograph that the P-47M from the 62nd FS had Yellow Stenciling.



The dress was definately not blue.

Which stencilling do you mean?

Nige
f1matt
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Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 08:06 AM UTC
Perhaps Rex is referring to the serial number on the tail?

-Matt
rdriscoll
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 09:15 AM UTC
Actually good call. I meant the factory stenciling. I wonder about the serial number as well.
I thought it would be a waste of time to put the stenciling back on a machine that was repainted.

Here is a photo of a P-47M of 62FS. Note the yellow stencil on the fuselage.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 01:06 AM UTC
The majority of the factory stencils on the upper surfaces would have been sprayed over. The pilot/crew chief panel on "Lorene" was white lettering with a red border, and the serial number on the tail was red.
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 10:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually good call. I meant the factory stenciling. I wonder about the serial number as well.
I thought it would be a waste of time to put the stenciling back on a machine that was repainted.

Here is a photo of a P-47M of 62FS. Note the yellow stencil on the fuselage.



Interesting photo, thanks for posting it.
Note the sheen on the fusalage resulting from the airframe being polished.
The "Marion" artwork on the cowling has obviously been removed when the aircraft has been camoflaged. All the P-47M's were deivered in a BMF.
Little Friends website lists 44-21237 Marion as being allocated to F/O Shirley D Ulch and the same serial number is listed as Dakota Kid Lt Walter Sharbo, so it looks as though it was one of the shared aircraft.
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 05:22 AM UTC
Lets talk 63FS 56FG P-47 M colours briefly.
Firstly, unless a researcher can talk to someone who was actually based at Boxted in early 1945 and either flew or painted the 63rd's P-47's personally then we are never going to know the exact colours of these fantastically painted machines.

The huge debate about the colour of the 61st FS M's has arisen from interperatation of b+w photos of varying quality and exposure and by people guessing what they THINK the colour was.
I have recieved these photos of a 1:6th scale model of "Fireball" the P-47 of Lt Philip Kuhn. This excellent replica was built by Dave Gianakos, who has done an enormous amount of research into the 56th. Its said that the blues are extremely close to the actual colours used by the 63rd FS.


Notice how the light has resulted in the colours looking very different in the photos, which were both taken on the same day.
To sum up, its highly likely that we will never know the exact colours used.
If it looks right,,go with it.
However, if anyone knows of the crash site of one of these "M"'s I'll meet you there with a metal detector!
Nige
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 11:30 AM UTC
Gents,
Hope you can help..
I'm doing some preliminary work for the group build.
In the June '07 issue of Model Airplane International there was a build article on the Academy Razorback,
There were Color profiles of Various Razorbacks Two have taken my fancy I'm on the look out for more info pilots history etc..
Both are fitted with Malcolm Hoods.
First:P47 Serial #42-26250 G9-G Turtle No9 509th FS, 405th. FG 9th AF
Second:P47D serial # 42-26261 K4-S. 511 FS,405th FG,9th AF.
I'm googling big time but I figured this is the place to get more info

Thanks in Advance
Cheers

Chris

lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 11:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gents,
Hope you can help..
I'm doing some preliminary work for the group build.
In the June '07 issue of Model Airplane International there was a build article on the Academy Razorback,
There were Color profiles of Various Razorbacks Two have taken my fancy I'm on the look out for more info pilots history etc..
Both are fitted with Malcolm Hoods.
First:P47 Serial #42-26250 G9-G Turtle No9 509th FS, 405th. FG 9th AF
Second:P47D serial # 42-26261 K4-S. 511 FS,405th FG,9th AF.
I'm googling big time but I figured this is the place to get more info

Thanks in Advance
Cheers

Chris



Hi Chris.
42-26250 G9-G Turtle No9 509FS 405th FG 9AAF
Pilot. Lt Charles Dooney



42-26261 K4-S 511FS 405thFG 9AAF
Pilot, Michael Tobin.




Dont forget to enlist in the group build campaign

Nige
warlock0322
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 03:44 PM UTC
Don't know if this will help or not. I found this while browsing the net doing some research.

http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/main_e.htm

If you scroll down the page it will give you 3 schemes for P-47's

1 is the USAAF 1941 scheme colors

2 is the 1943 USAAF scheme colors

3rd is the 1945 USAAF 56th FS scheme ( or so it says).

I have used the colors on this site in the past and they are pretty close to me.

As I said I don't know if it will help or if this is old news to some. I just thought I would throw it out there for all to see..

Paul
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 09:25 PM UTC
Hi Paul.
Thanks for posting the link.
The grey looks pretty close when I compare it to my original paint chip.

Olive drab is very open to debate. Heres an original sample.

It looks much different to every photo Ive seen, but the P-51 in Cosford museum matches this colour almost exactly.
As for the 56th FG colour,all I can say is that its prime example of what Russ Klyer describes as "wild guesses"
All the best
Nige
warlock0322
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 09:27 AM UTC
I see what you mean with the Olive Drab. Unless it is my monitor I would have guessed it to be a Dark Gull Gray of some sort.

Those are some treasures you have there. What surprised me thought was. Not a debate about the Olive Drab. I would have thought the Plum the site has listed would have caused some head scratching. But by looking at your fist picture there I can see that It would be pretty close.

Paul
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 10:11 AM UTC
Hi Paul.

Quoted Text

I would have thought the Plum the site has listed would have caused some head scratching.


If you scroll up this page a bit you'll see extracts from emails Ive recieved from Russ Kyler of the 61st FS 56FG, pilot of P-47 M "Lorene" which IMHO dispels all the rumours and debates of the plum/purple colour of the 61st FS P-47 M's.
So no head scratching from me
If only I could get such a definitive answer regarding the 63rd FS M's.
Nige
Removed by original poster on 06/08/08 - 21:35:36 (GMT).
warlock0322
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Paul.

Quoted Text

I would have thought the Plum the site has listed would have caused some head scratching.


If you scroll up this page a bit you'll see extracts from emails Ive recieved from Russ Kyler of the 61st FS 56FG, pilot of P-47 M "Lorene" which IMHO dispels all the rumours and debates of the plum/purple colour of the 61st FS P-47 M's.
So no head scratching from me
If only I could get such a definitive answer regarding the 63rd FS M's.
Nige



Well if I was paying better attention I would have caught that. Nothing like an Eyewitness to set you straight.

I don't know if you or anyone else has seen this site. Probably have it has been around a while.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/updates

It does have a load of color pictures of some T-Bolts. Some have unit designations some don't , but maybe one may have markings of the elusive unit you are looking for.

Paul
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:48 AM UTC
Hi Paul.
Great link, thanks for posting it.
If anybody hasnt seen the site its well worth a visit!
A lot of the P-47 photos are either P-47 B's flying over Long Island or P-47 D's at Boxted. All 56th FG but pre P-47 M's.(Jan 45)
If we knew the answers to all the questions it wouldnt be fun anymore would it?
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 11:00 PM UTC
A question that was raised by Longknife on another thread.


Quoted Text

I got a Tamiya 1:48 P 47 D without dorsal fin Yesterday, and it's Megahugeomungus! I mean, I can stick a Bf 109 fuselage in it, and still have room for the cockpit. I have no idea what to make of it, because I don't want to make a full metal plane. I found a cute little pic on the net, though.


It has checkers, it has D-day stripes, it has colour on the rudder and nobody can tell (until I get the full story of the plane by Nigel ) if it had a grey, blue or NFM belly. That way I can try NMF without it being too visible afterwards.



Heres what Ive been able to find with a quick search this morning.
Your P-47 42-26535 flew out of Duxford with the 82nd FS 78th Fighter Group.
MX-E was lost on 13/8/1944 in a flying accident. The pilot Lt Billy Smith did not survive.
The underside would have been NMF,( your not getting out of it that easily, break out the Alclad Tony! )
Ive seen photos of 78th FG Mustangs with the rudders painted in the individual squadron colours, the 82nd FS being red, but at the moment I cant confirm if your P-47 had a painted rudder. Given that painted rudders were common practice in mid 1945 it may well have have had one at some point but its hard to be sure.
Heres a photo of your P-47. As the invasion stripes look to have been removed on the upper surfaces it dates the photo as very close to when MX-E and Lt Smith were lost.



Nige
LongKnife
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Jönköping, Sweden
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Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 01:08 AM UTC
Thanks for that Nigel. It seems that there are pits and holes everywhere on this site, and I don't know a tenth of them. This 'ole however, will be revisited - from beginning to end.

I will most certainly make Billy Smiths aircraft, and I'm not afraid to try alclad I just don't want anyone to see it Then again, we're not here because we want to hide our work, are we?
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 03:12 AM UTC
Hi Tony.
Had you not visited my little corner of the hanger before?
Heres a link to a feature I wrote about my experiences with Alclad.
Alclad Adventures
Nige
rdriscoll
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 03:32 AM UTC
Looks like no wing pylons in the photo.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 - 05:31 AM UTC
Oversized "Star And Bar" under the port wing as well. Very common "in field" addition to the standard national markings.
Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 05:03 AM UTC
Some excellent 56th FG nose art photos from Rdriscoll.


Nige
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 05:10 AM UTC