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Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Merkava 1 hull length Takom v. Tamiya
Petition2God
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 06, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 10:58 PM UTC
Hi all,
I've noticed Takom's 1/35 Merkava 1 kit's hull length is almost 4 mm longer than the venerable Tamiya Merkava 1 kit. Which one is more accurate in the measurement?
GuyGos
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Netanya, Israel
Joined: April 08, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 11:31 PM UTC
Takom by far.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 12:14 AM UTC
Tamiya's offering is almost 40 years old, Takom's is from 2017.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 12:51 AM UTC
The Takom kit matches the plans in the Sabinga Martin book.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,282 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 06:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all,
I've noticed Takom's 1/35 Merkava 1 kit's hull length is almost 4 mm longer than the venerable Tamiya Merkava 1 kit. Which one is more accurate in the measurement?



TAKOM!!!
Gary
Petition2God
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 07:17 PM UTC
Haha! I got the message. Thanks all. I was still hoping that big T got it right 40 years ago..
rfbaer
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
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Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 - 05:22 AM UTC
Considering the age of the Tamiya kit, I think they did pretty good, but I'm looking at the two I still have in the stash, thinking "What am I gonna do with those now?" I'm gonna choose to ignore it when I look at the one I have in the display case, finished.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
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Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Considering the age of the Tamiya kit, I think they did pretty good



Agreed. Accuracy issues aside, it's still an enjoyable kit that looks like a Merkava 1.


Quoted Text

I'm looking at the two I still have in the stash, thinking "What am I gonna do with those now?"



I was toying with the idea to convert one to a fictional 'Nagmakava'.
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 09:45 PM UTC
Guys, but that mean that all Academy Merkavas are wrong.
Every Legend conversion is wrong
Meng Merkava Mk IV M w/Trophy is also same lenght like Academy.
Are they also wrong?

Are the hull lenght on Mk1,Mk2,Mk3 and Mk4 the same?
I mean only hull, not the additional baskets.
Can someone check this on real Merkava in Lantrum?
petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 2,776 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 09:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys, but that mean that all Academy Merkavas are wrong.
Every Legend conversion is wrong
Meng Merkava Mk IV M w/Trophy is also same lenght like Academy.
Are they also wrong?





Unlike their earlier M113 Zelda Kits, Academy did not use Tamiya moulds for their Merkava, so you can't assume their hull is wrong just on that. You would need to measure them up and check the measurements to actual dimensions.

salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 09:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Guys, but that mean that all Academy Merkavas are wrong.
Every Legend conversion is wrong
Meng Merkava Mk IV M w/Trophy is also same lenght like Academy.
Are they also wrong?





Unlike their earlier M113 Zelda Kits, Academy did not use Tamiya moulds for their Merkava, so you can't assume their hull is wrong just on that. You would need to measure them up and check the measurements to actual dimensions.




I have folowing Merkavas:
Mk1 Tamiya, Mk2 Academy, Mk2D Academy, Mk3 MENG, Mk3 D MENG, Mk4 Trophy MENG, Mk4 Academy and TAKOMS Mk1 and Mk2
SO yes I did put them together.
The Tamiya and Academy hulls are identical in lenght
Oh yes, I also have few Legend conversions.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 10:13 PM UTC
The OP's question was referring to the length of the Tamiya Mk.1 kit compared to that of Takom's Mk.1. Academy doesn't have a Mk.1 on offer.

AFAIK, the Mk.1 and 2 are slightly shorter than the Mk3. and 4.
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 10:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The OP's question was referring to the length of the Tamiya Mk.1 kit compared to that of Takom's Mk.1. Academy doesn't have a Mk.1 on offer.

AFAIK, the Mk.1 and 2 are slightly shorter than the Mk3. and 4 and but I'm entirely sure.







Yes but Academy Mk2 is the same lenght as Tamiya Mk1 and Takoms Mk1 is the same lenght as Takoms Mk2, so there is the connection there.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,286 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 10:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I have folowing Merkavas:
Mk1 Tamiya, Mk2 Academy, Mk2D Academy, Mk3 MENG, Mk3 D MENG, Mk4 Trophy MENG, Mk4 Academy and TAKOMS Mk1 and Mk2
SO yes I did put them together.
The Tamiya and Academy hulls are identical in lenght
Oh yes, I also have few Legend conversions.



Interesting. As Marc pointed out, Takom's offering does match the plans in Sabinga Martin's book.

salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 10:30 PM UTC
I seen plans and plans, sooo.....
If someone can measure the real Merkava that would be great!!
stephane
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: October 10, 2005
KitMaker: 423 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 12:15 AM UTC
the merkava I /II and the III or the IV are differents vehicles with differents hulls.
The Merkava II serie by Academy are (like their M60,Mutt and Humvee) largely inspired by Tamiya's one (their humvee is an improved clone of Italeri one) . There'are old kits ,the Magach6 batash, Magach 7 and MKIID are old kits based with new parts
The only accurate Academy Merkava is the MKIV. This kit is a "recent" kit.
So i thinks that the Takom Merkava are more accurates....
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 12:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

the merkava I /II and the III or the IV are differents vehicles with differents hulls.
The Merkava II serie by Academy are (like their M60,Mutt and Humvee) largely inspired by Tamiya's one (their humvee . There'are old kits ,the Magach6 batash, Magach 7 and MKIID are old kits based with new parts
The only accurate Academy Merkava is the MKIV. This kit is a "recent" kit.
So i thinks that the Takom Merkava are more accurates....



Ok they are old models, but yesterday I put Tamiya old M-60 upper hull part on AFV club and Takom lower hull and they fit almost perfect.
In Merkavas we are talking about 6-7 mm hull size difference.

I put the picture in my gallery, just click PHOTOS

From left to right upper hull
Academy Mk2D, MENG Mk4 M Trophy , Takom Mk1 Hybrid

It wouldnt be the first time NEW models have wrong measures (remember MENG Cougar)
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 12:46 AM UTC
How do Meng's and Academy's Mk.4 compare?
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 12:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

How do Meng's and Academy's Mk.4 compare?



Sorry, did not compare. They are berried deep in my stash
stephane
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: October 10, 2005
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 03:06 AM UTC
meng MK4 and Academy MK4 have same dimensions.
So it seems that Academy did good job on it (Meng had first hand informations on IDF subjects).
If Takom MK1 matchs the blue prints in Sabingamartin book we can think that their kit is accurate...or Sabingamartin used the takom kit as reference: i don't think so.
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 03:42 AM UTC
See my picture.
Academy mk2D and MENG mk4 M are the same size in lenght ( basket not included)
I start to think that Takom did mistake taken plans from book. It wouldnt be the first time that the plans in book are off.
Tonight I will compare Hobby Boss mk3D with Academy mk2D
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 03:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Meng had first hand informations on IDF subjects.



I think Michael Maas was involved in developing the kit.
ReluctantRenegade
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Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Are the hull lenght on Mk1,Mk2,Mk3 and Mk4 the same?
I mean only hull, not the additional baskets.



As far as basic hull- and turret-design go, the Mk.1 and 2 are practically the same (the hulls are not completely identical though as the Mk.1 and 2 have different powertrains); the hull of the Mk.3 looks similar to that of the Mk.2 but it's actually a new design topped with a new turret; the Mk.4 has clean-sheet designed hull and turret different from the previous three marks.
Petition2God
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 05:13 AM UTC
Very interesting discussions, everyone.
So I gather the length info:

Takom MK1 & MK2 > (Academy MK4 = Meng MK4) > (Tamiya MK1 = Academy MK2s = Meng MK3s)

Is that a correct summary of what is posted so far?
With the HB's offerings to examine?
salep1
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 17, 2020
KitMaker: 17 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 - 07:49 AM UTC
More bad news for Takom or all the others.
Hobby Boss mk3D is same lenght as Academy mk2D and mk3 and also old Tamiya mk1.
I will upload pictures tomorrow.
James, u got it partly right.
Takom mk1 and mk2 on one side and all the others (Tamiya,Academy,MENG, Hobby Boss) on the other.
Who got it right??!!