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General Aircraft: Tips & Techniques
Discussions on specific A/C building techniques.
Undercoating for natural metal.
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC
Hi All,
on natural metal I know a black undercoat is required but does it have to be a Gloss or can I go matt?

I'm working on the Tamiya P-51B and will be using Tamiya metal acrylics.

Advice please


Cheers



Chris
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,408 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 10:18 AM UTC
Should be gloss but i never try with matt
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,757 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 12:53 PM UTC
All natural metal finishes exaggerate the underlying surface. If you want a really shiny natural metal, your black must be as glossy as you can get it. Matte black will result in a matte metal finish such as you see with extremely weathered aluminium. Semi-gloss will give you something in the middle.

Try it on a scrap model first so you can see what it'll look like.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Monday, July 01, 2019 - 09:36 PM UTC
[quote]Hi All,
on natural metal I know a black undercoat is required but does it have to be a Gloss or can I go matt?

I'm working on the Tamiya P-51B and will be using Tamiya metal acrylics.

Advice please

I agree with Jessie_C- The undercoat should be a HIGH-GLOSS BLACK if you want a mirror-like finish. TAKE NOTE:

Your plastic has to be POLISHED SMOOTH, otherwise every single little microscopic scratch will show up in your metal-finish. The plastic needs to be MIRROR-SMOOTH. If you would like to depict contrasts in your your metal panels, you can spray on your Gloss Black, and then you can mask off the panels in which you would like to to show contrast, and then follow up with a CLEAR Semi-Gloss or Flat, OR you can also use different shades of metalizer paint.

Many modelers are finding out that the new AK INTERACTIVE XTREME Metal ENAMELS are working beautifully. I haven't tried it yet, but most of these DO NOT require a Gloss Black undercoat, except for the CHROME FINISH, or if you want to depict highly-polished Aluminum. Remember that on REAL Aircraft even highly-polished Aluminum OXIDIZES VERY QUICKLY, so a highly-polished Aluminum P-47, P-51, or whatever will turn dull pretty quickly, unless the plane is polished every day.

Remember also, that ALL NATURAL-ALUMINUM finished P-51s, such as your projected P-51B, had their Main Wings panels PUTTIED OVER (EXCEPT for the Gun Bay Panels), in order to take advantage of the Mustang's Laminar-flow Wing. After the Wings were sanded smooth, they were spray-painted overall with a bright SILVER-ALUMINUM DOPE, so a Natural-Aluminum finish should ONLY be depicted on the Fuselage. Propeller Spinners were left either in their Natural-Aluminum, or painted different colors in certain Squadrons' use. Check your references. Control Surfaces, such as the Ailerons, Elevators and Rudders, were also painted in the aforementioned bright SILVER-ALUMINUM DOPE, except once again, in certain Squadrons' use. Check your references.

Which Unit are you planning to decorate your P-51B as serving in?


Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,889 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 12:32 PM UTC
Chris, I agree with what everyone has said above regarding surface preparation for natural metal surfaces— especially true for Alclad Lacquers but applicable to most others as well. However, I’ve been experimenting with another method simulating individual panels which works extremely well— painting your base natural metal finish, then using metallic colors applied to clear decal paper and applying it as a decal for individual panels. This works great for simulating the variance in metallic aircraft finishes. First, I “base coat” in an overall metallic paint. Then I apply decal paper painted in different shades of metallic colors. I usually size the decal (with calipers) before cutting, but for unusual shapes, I cut an approximate sized decal, and use a scalpel blade to carefully follow a panel line, removing the excess decal as I go. It won’t always work on extremely curved surfaces (such as prop spinners), but it’s perfect for wings and fuselage sides. It also works well for canopy frames. This method prevents masking problems in the base coat, and eliminates the problems with “residue and detritus” that can get under successive coats. It’s also less messy and more forgiving.
VR, Russ
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
AeroScale: 490 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 02:46 PM UTC
Vicious,Jessie,Dennis and Russ,
Thanks so much guys for your input.
Dennis I'm going straight out of the box for this one as G*50 Bonnie Bea, I've added scratch built seat belts and a little plumbing for the external tanks. I may also add brake lines, we'll see.

On the way home from doing a recovery run,stopped off and picked up model master gloss black, so I'm good to go.just finishing up the masking the canopy

So the plan for the rest of the day is finish masking the open canopy and also mask the closed one as I'm still figuring out how to minimise scratching when cutting masking tape. this way I can choose the best one. and finish sanding her up so I can undercoat tomorrow.

But this is open to change.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 11:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Vicious,Jessie,Dennis and Russ,
Thanks so much guys for your input.
Dennis I'm going straight out of the box for this one as G*50 Bonnie Bea, I've added scratch built seat belts and a little plumbing for the external tanks. I may also add brake lines, we'll see.

On the way home from doing a recovery run,stopped off and picked up model master gloss black, so I'm good to go.just finishing up the masking the canopy

So the plan for the rest of the day is finish masking the open canopy and also mask the closed one as I'm still figuring out how to minimise scratching when cutting masking tape. this way I can choose the best one. and finish sanding her up so I can undercoat tomorrow.

But this is open to change.



Hi, Chris!

Any pics..? I'm sure the interested parties would love to see what you've got going on!

I LOVE P-51s, but I'd say that the P-47 is right up there on the same plane- No pun intended!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 11:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Chris, I agree with what everyone has said above regarding surface preparation for natural metal surfaces— especially true for Alclad Lacquers but applicable to most others as well. However, I’ve been experimenting with another method simulating individual panels which works extremely well— painting your base natural metal finish, then using metallic colors applied to clear decal paper and applying it as a decal for individual panels. This works great for simulating the variance in metallic aircraft finishes. First, I “base coat” in an overall metallic paint. Then I apply decal paper painted in different shades of metallic colors. I usually size the decal (with calipers) before cutting, but for unusual shapes, I cut an approximate sized decal, and use a scalpel blade to carefully follow a panel line, removing the excess decal as I go. It won’t always work on extremely curved surfaces (such as prop spinners), but it’s perfect for wings and fuselage sides. It also works well for canopy frames. This method prevents masking problems in the base coat, and eliminates the problems with “residue and detritus” that can get under successive coats. It’s also less messy and more forgiving.
VR, Russ



Hi, Russ! I didn't know that you're "into" aircraft! I myself, am primarily an aircraft modeler, with HO brass and "high-end" mixed-media (as in Broadway Limited Brass Hybrids) Steam-era Locomotives and Trains. Figure-painting is third, with 1/35 Armor and AFVs coming in in FOURTH place...

That's a NOVEL way of replicating Natural-metal finishes. Think I'll try that method on my next "Natural-metal" project!
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,889 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 04:19 AM UTC
Dennis,
Yes, we have quite similar interests. But I'm going to try and stay on topic here for other readers, so some "bare metal decal" options are explained in the last paragraph...so skip to that if you want just the "short version".

I started building models in 1959, with the usual kits from my local drugstore. I moved into HO trains in the early 60s. I built plastic models and painted figures (mostly Imrie-Risely and Bugle and Guidon) through the early 70s. My modeling was interrupted by 30 years of military service, however, I painted Series 77 miniatures and moved into collecting brass HOn3. Until 1997 when I went back to building aircraft for my teacher-wife who needed aircraft from the Wright Flyer to the Space Shuttle for her classroom.

When I retired from the Military, I landed a job in a local hobby distributor, who had a storefront LHS until the owner passed away unexpectedly and the family liquidated the business. In the meantime, I built all kinds of models for commission, and had a fair business going until I realized I wasn't having much fun building models for others, and being retired once already, really didn't want my own business, which was taking up a lot of my time. I had also joined a local modelers group that supplies models to the Seattle Museum of Flight displays. I currently have one of my "decal bare metal" aircraft in a display on Washington State Military Aircraft--a Special Hobby B-18A.

I learned the decal technique from a gentleman who supplied models to the USAF Museum at McChord Field WA and was a IPMS Nationals award wining modeler. Although he's passed on, his technique was pretty amazing, and can still be found on numerous models in the museum. It's a great alternative to masking all those separate panels, but it does require some accuracy in using a caliper to measure, then cut individual panels, and some practice working with a scalpel along panel lines. Many don't realize decal paper can be airbrush painted just like the surface of a model-- it's also a great way to get matching colors and widths in stripes. I keep a stock of blank decal film on hand specifically for this reason. I also use it for replicating aircraft de-icing boots and canopy frames, rather than painting with masks. I use Alclad Clear Gloss to coat the decal afterwards to blend it into the surface (even for canopy frames as Alclad Gloss is crystal clear over clear parts), and applied properly, Alclad Clear Gloss is the best clear I've ever used for "bare metal". Sealed with Alclad, the decal blends beautifully into the base finish perfectly. Occasionally, I carefully use Solve-a-set to get a decal to conform to a compound surface. Although it seems like a difficult alternative to painting, it eliminates masking, and the mess of painting more than one finish. Another benefit is you have a ready made supply of "metallic" finishes ready for the next bare metal model waiting in a drawer when you need it.
VR, Russ

P.S. I forgot to mention- painting decal paper works best with model lacquers and enamel paints, and if you are using Alclad, you need to base coat the decal in black gloss (you don’t need to do that for Testors, Floquil, Mr. Color or Tamiya Metallic colors. If you plan on using Acrylics, you’ll need to prime the decal surface with a good acrylic primer, or just spray on Testors Dullcoat (I decant the spray can into my airbrush thinned 50:50 with Testors airbrush thinner. This gives the acrylics something to “bite”.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 10:56 AM UTC
Hi, Chris!

G*50 "Bonnie B"- Can you elaborate a little bit more? Country, Unit(s) of Service, where "Bonnie B" was based, etc? Genuinely interested!

I always thought the P-51 was at her best in overall Natural-metal, but the earlier OD over Neutral Gray-versions aren't bad. Of course the various RAF color-schemes are pretty darned interesting, as well!!! My personal favorite '51s are the P-51Ds of the 334th, 335th and 336th Fighter Squadrons of the 4th Fighter Group, in the last months of the Air War Over Europe, with the RED Nose and "scalloped-flare" extending back to the Main-wing Root under the Engine Cowling assembly. P-47s? Of COURSE, the 61st, 62nd, and 63rd Fighter Squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group... The 56th's Thunderbolts are my all-time favorites!!!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 11:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dennis,
Yes, we have quite similar interests. But I'm going to try and stay on topic here for other readers, so some "bare metal decal" options are explained in the last paragraph...so skip to that if you want just the "short version".

I started building models in 1959, with the usual kits from my local drugstore. I moved into HO trains in the early 60s. I built plastic models and painted figures (mostly Imrie-Risely and Bugle and Guidon) through the early 70s. My modeling was interrupted by 30 years of military service, however, I painted Series 77 miniatures and moved into collecting brass HOn3. Until 1997 when I went back to building aircraft for my teacher-wife who needed aircraft from the Wright Flyer to the Space Shuttle for her classroom.

When I retired from the Military, I landed a job in a local hobby distributor, who had a storefront LHS until the owner passed away unexpectedly and the family liquidated the business. In the meantime, I built all kinds of models for commission, and had a fair business going until I realized I wasn't having much fun building models for others, and being retired once already, really didn't want my own business, which was taking up a lot of my time. I had also joined a local modelers group that supplies models to the Seattle Museum of Flight displays. I currently have one of my "decal bare metal" aircraft in a display on Washington State Military Aircraft--a Special Hobby B-18A.

I learned the decal technique from a gentleman who supplied models to the USAF Museum at McChord Field WA and was a IPMS Nationals award wining modeler. Although he's passed on, his technique was pretty amazing, and can still be found on numerous models in the museum. It's a great alternative to masking all those separate panels, but it does require some accuracy in using a caliper to measure, then cut individual panels, and some practice working with a scalpel along panel lines. Many don't realize decal paper can be airbrush painted just like the surface of a model-- it's also a great way to get matching colors and widths in stripes. I keep a stock of blank decal film on hand specifically for this reason. I also use it for replicating aircraft de-icing boots and canopy frames, rather than painting with masks. I use Alclad Clear Gloss to coat the decal afterwards to blend it into the surface (even for canopy frames as Alclad Gloss is crystal clear over clear parts), and applied properly, Alclad Clear Gloss is the best clear I've ever used for "bare metal". Sealed with Alclad, the decal blends beautifully into the base finish perfectly. Occasionally, I carefully use Solve-a-set to get a decal to conform to a compound surface. Although it seems like a difficult alternative to painting, it eliminates masking, and the mess of painting more than one finish. Another benefit is you have a ready made supply of "metallic" finishes ready for the next bare metal model waiting in a drawer when you need it.
VR, Russ

P.S. I forgot to mention- painting decal paper works best with model lacquers and enamel paints, and if you are using Alclad, you need to base coat the decal in black gloss (you don’t need to do that for Testors, Floquil, Mr. Color or Tamiya Metallic colors. If you plan on using Acrylics, you’ll need to prime the decal surface with a good acrylic primer, or just spray on Testors Dullcoat (I decant the spray can into my airbrush thinned 50:50 with Testors airbrush thinner. This gives the acrylics something to “bite”.
VR, Russ



Hi, Russ!

It's remarkable how similar our modeling interests really are, especially the way they evolved, and the era in which we first started in this hobby. I agree about hijacking this thread, but actually, I think everyone benefits in this case. Chris may want to try your technique after reading how simple it sounds.

You've got my interest aroused as far as this "ALCLAD-over-decal-film"-technique is concerned. The ONLY "Natural-metal" finish mediums I haven't tried yet are the AK INTERACTIVE Xtreme Metal metallics, which are ENAMEL-based- THAT alone is a selling point with me, as most of my paints are the TESTORS MODEL MASTER II Enamels, but I also have the TESTORS "Metalizer" Lacquers handy- Not that I would mix AK's Enamels with Model Master's- THAT is just something that I don't like to do because of possible adverse effects. I've already tried using my own enamel-custom-mixes of OLIVE DRAB airbrushed onto decal-film for my own use as "Anti Glare panels" on my WWII USAAF Natural-metal Aircraft, with splendid results. It just IRKS me that I've never come across the technique of using Natural-metal paint sprayed onto decal film to apply "panels" on model aircraft before, what with all of the reading that I do, both on-line and in my books and periodicals!

In any case, I'm going to give this a try! THANKS MUCH for mentioning it, and EXPLAINING how it's done!!!

PS- Is there a specific brand of decal film that you prefer to use?
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 11:32 AM UTC
Hi Dennis
Working from the instruction guide Bonnie Bea 339th FS 504 Fighter group Natural metal with OD anti glare panel thats all I've got sorry. The other options were both OD over Gray which didn't really interest me.I'm hoping to fire up the airbrush later today to get an undercoat on
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 12:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Vicious,Jessie,Dennis and Russ,
Thanks so much guys for your input.
Dennis I'm going straight out of the box for this one as G*50 Bonnie Bea, I've added scratch built seat belts and a little plumbing for the external tanks. I may also add brake lines, we'll see.

On the way home from doing a recovery run,stopped off and picked up model master gloss black, so I'm good to go.just finishing up the masking the canopy

So the plan for the rest of the day is finish masking the open canopy and also mask the closed one as I'm still figuring out how to minimise scratching when cutting masking tape. this way I can choose the best one. and finish sanding her up so I can undercoat tomorrow.

But this is open to change.



Hi Again, Chris!

Here's a little hint that I learned many years ago from one of Shep Paine's "MONOGRAM MODELS How-To" monographs which were included in some of their kits back in the 1970s:

DON'T cut your tape ON your Canopies! There's too much of a chance of ruining your Canopy(ies) and/or slicing your fingers into shreds!!! This is better:

Lay your masking tape on a smooth plate of GLASS, NOT Plexi-glass (perspex), or plastic sheet. The "fuzz" from cutting on any kind of plastic will always adhere to your tape, and cutting masking tape on glass will completely alleviate plastic "fuzz", which has a habit of screwing anything and everything up! Glass shops will usually sell you a small piece of "plate" or "Safety Glass" (which is preferable) for a nominal fee. I keep a piece of safety glass taped at the edges, taped down on one of my workbenches. I use glass, because a perfectly flat surface is BEST for these types of little "chores"...

What you will want to do, (and a brand-new, SHARP hobby knife is ESSENTIAL for this little task) is you will want to use a "straight edge", such as a steel-rule to cut strips of about 1/16"-wide of your masking tape on your glass. Measure the various panels of your plastic "Canopy-Frames" and cut small strips of your pre-cut masking tape strips according to the lengths required for the INSIDE dimensions of the OUTSIDE surfaces of your Framing. Lay the small strips down up against the Framing, a SINGLE PANE AT A TIME. Fill the "open" areas of the pane in with pieces of masking tape so that the Framing is exposed, but the "glass/plexi-glass/perspex" is COVERED with the masking tape. Repeat for each panel of your Canopy. Mask the Inside of the Canopy off, otherwise you'll get over-spray on the inside of your canopy. Now go ahead and airbrush the INTERIOR COLOR of your Canopy Frame onto your Canopy, and wait until that has completely dried before you airbrush your exterior color onto your Canopy in order to depict the two different colors as seen on real aircraft.

Now here's a BETTER trick. As Russ, myself, and I'm sure many other modelers have done in the past, you can airbrush your various Interior (first) and Exterior colors (second) onto clear decal film, and once this has dried, you can cut strips of this pre-colored decal film in order to fit your Canopy's(ies) Framing, and apply it accordingly. Please note that the above are "OLD" methods. (see below)

Now here's the BEST technique of all:

There are a MYRIAD of PRE-CUT Canopy and Wheel/Tire (or Tyre) Masks, such as made by EDUARD, MONTEX and and a few others that are made specifically to FIT nearly every popular aircraft kit in nearly every scale, out there. For the price, they are definitely worth buying, as opposed to "fiddling around" and trying to measure, cut and fit masking tape or decal-film! These masks are quite common for ALL models of P-51s, in ANY scale. An EDUARD Canopy/Wheels Masking set for your TAMIYA P-51B typically runs about $3 or $4, on average. Since these Canopy and Wheel/Tire Masks came onto the "hobby-market" back in the late 1990s, I NEVER bother to make my own home-made masks anymore.

Do yourself a favor, and invest in a set of Canopy and Wheel/Tire (or Tyre) Masks...

PS- I know that you said that you're building this '51 "out of the box", but you may want to at least consider an EDUARD "ZOOM" PE Cockpit set for this fine kit in order to do it justice. The EDUARD "ZOOM" PE sets are minimal, and they include an Instrument Panel, with a couple of prominent Placards here and there, and a set of Seat Belts. For the extra $4.00 or $5.00 for the PE set plus a minimal shipping fee, (many Hobby Shops ship very small things as PE sets and Masking sets for FREE, if you buy on Ebay, for example), the extra details are well-worth the extra $4 or $5 dollars for the PE set in the end...
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,889 posts
AeroScale: 681 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2019 - 05:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text



In any case, I'm going to give this a try! THANKS MUCH for mentioning it, and EXPLAINING how it's done!!!

PS- Is there a specific brand of decal film that you prefer to use?



Dennis,
I use Walthers 8.5" X 11" clear decal paper, and had a pretty good stock of it until my local Model RR store closed, now I use a very similar brand of paper (the manufacturer escapes me (and I'm remodeling the work space in my garage shop so I can't easily access the brand). I buy it from my (not so local) LHS. You can also buy it from Squadron and Sprue Brothers though. I would stay away from Testor's "half sheet" paper. My experience with Testors paper is it's more "filmy" (the best word I can use to describe it), and does not cut or conform well.

I base coat the Decal with Alclad Black "Micro Primer and Porefiller, but any good Gloss Black that sprays on thin will work. I've tried using straight Alclad paints without base coating-- but they come out translucent (which is ok for some applications). Other paints, such as Testor's enamels, Tamiya, Mr. Color (they have a new range of metallics) don't need the black undercoat that Alclad requires. I've also thought about using white decal paper as well with Alclad, which might eliminate the need to base coat, but I haven't tried that. I'd think it might leave a thin but noticeable line of white around the decal. I also make many of my own decals using my printer, which is a whole other story. This waist gunner figure model below was done completely by using "home built" decals--the small "warning labels" are made using Alclad metallic painted decal paper overlaid with black printed decals, the effect (in person anyway) can be rather stunning:

https://largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3273

VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2019 - 10:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



In any case, I'm going to give this a try! THANKS MUCH for mentioning it, and EXPLAINING how it's done!!!

PS- Is there a specific brand of decal film that you prefer to use?



Dennis,
I use Walthers 8.5" X 11" clear decal paper, and had a pretty good stock of it until my local Model RR store closed, now I use a very similar brand of paper (the manufacturer escapes me (and I'm remodeling the work space in my garage shop so I can't easily access the brand). I buy it from my (not so local) LHS. You can also buy it from Squadron and Sprue Brothers though. I would stay away from Testor's "half sheet" paper. My experience with Testors paper is it's more "filmy" (the best word I can use to describe it), and does not cut or conform well.

I base coat the Decal with Alclad Black "Micro Primer and Porefiller, but any good Gloss Black that sprays on thin will work. I've tried using straight Alclad paints without base coating-- but they come out translucent (which is ok for some applications). Other paints, such as Testor's enamels, Tamiya, Mr. Color (they have a new range of metallics) don't need the black undercoat that Alclad requires. I've also thought about using white decal paper as well with Alclad, which might eliminate the need to base coat, but I haven't tried that. I'd think it might leave a thin but noticeable line of white around the decal. I also make many of my own decals using my printer, which is a whole other story. This waist gunner figure model below was done completely by using "home built" decals--the small "warning labels" are made using Alclad metallic painted decal paper overlaid with black printed decals, the effect (in person anyway) can be rather stunning:

https://largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3273

VR, Russ



Hi, Russ!

VERY NICE work on that 1:16/120mm VERLINDEN B-17 Waist Gunner!!! KUDOS!!!

I didn't know that you were a figure modeler-painter, either!

Have you used MICROSCALE's Clear Decal Paper at all? I have an account with MICROSCALE, so I was wondering if MICROSCALE Decal Paper would work as well as the WALTHERS..? If not, then I can always get the WALTHERS Decal Paper. I would probably have to re-register my account at WALTHERS, since I haven't bought anything from them DIRECT in a few years... Too expensive...

Speaking of WALTHERS, I have a couple more questions- These questions regard my RE-PAINTING some HO WALTHERS and BRANCHLINE Heavyweight Passenger Cars. I've bought a number of these recently, and I want to repaint them in TRUE COLOR TCP-054 PULLMAN GREEN, which is an Acetone-based ACRYLIC paint. These passenger cars are painted in colors other than PULLMAN GREEN, which is why I want to re-paint them in order to replicate a full "Section" of 14 Heavyweight cars of the New York Central 20th Century Limited, circa 1929/1930...

I don't want to take a chance in RUINING the paint on the cars themselves by using the wrong PRIMER, which I will explain, next.

I've already put "feelers" out on AEROSCALE's sister-sites ARMORAMA and on RAILROAD MODELING asking about "BENIGN" PRIMERS that I could possibly use to spray or airbrush onto the WALTHERS and BRANCHLINE Passenger cars without having to STRIP the paint off of them beforehand. I don't want to take any chances by using any kinds of strippers, for fear of them being "too harsh" on the paint and/or the underlying plastic surfaces of the passenger cars. Even though I picked these cars up for a good price, I'd hate to ruin them by using PRIMERS which will eat into the underlying paint and consequently, into the plastic surfaces of the cars.

The TCP paints are formulated to be thinned with ACETONE, which in and of itself is kind of a harsh medium, so that's why I'm asking about the use of the proper primers. I DO NOT want to TEST anything on the cars themselves, for "testing" can also lead to "disasters". I know that the TAMIYA Primers and Paints both in the bottles and in "rattle-can" form are Lacquer-based acrylics. I'm just wondering how "benign" these are, as well...

Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing, and have been unsuccessful in finding out what EXACTLY the compositions of the paints are/were that were used in the original paint-work of the WALTHERS and BRANCHLINE Heavyweight Passenger Cars...

I'm also wondering if it might be OK to try AK INTERACTIVE's BLACK Fine Primer, as it is supposedly an Enamel-based Primer, as are AK INTERACTIVE's new "XTREME-Metal" Metallic Enamels, which I might want to try in conjunction with your "metallic-finish-decaling process"...

Any suggestions that you may offer will be highly appreciated.

Thanks Very Much, in advance...

VR,

Dennis

PS- I've been wanting to replicate a 1/48 P-51D, (using the "new" AIRFIX kit), of the 4th Fighter Group; the aircraft in question was named "Djigooblie II", (or was it "Djigooblie III"? I forget; I'd have to check)...

I haven't got my own printer, otherwise I could probably handle this little job on my own. I was wondering if I supplied you with a 1/48-sized illustration of the name, if you would/could print a pair of decals of this name for the left and right sides of the nose of this airplane..? Of course, I would pay you a fee for this work... If not, then I'll just have to forego building this particular airplane and choose another...
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
AeroScale: 490 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2019 - 12:08 PM UTC
Russ,
Nicely done with the Verlinden B-17 figure. I have a soft spot for his figures.
I hope you guys have all seen The Cold Blue-the remastered Memphis Belle Documentary.
On the P-51 front completely stuffed up the undercoat so bad I had to strip and start again, I suspect as its winter here it might have been a little to cold,(approx 13 Celsius) well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it felt colder when I was running.So I'll try again later round 2.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,889 posts
AeroScale: 681 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2019 - 06:01 PM UTC
Dennis, I'd be happy to do it for you, within the limits of printing-- be aware some colors (yellow) do not print particularly well with a bubble jet printer, and need either overlays (more than one decal) or careful hand painting. If you send me the basic print I'd be glad to take a look and see what it requires. Send me a PM.

Chris-- what exactly did you use for an undercoat? Have you tried Mr. Color glass black as a primer? Properly thinned, it should go on nicely even in cool weather.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,245 posts
AeroScale: 119 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2019 - 07:30 PM UTC
Hi, Russ!

Essentially, the colors for the "Djigooblie" name letters are a WHITE base, with a RED center. It's not a complicated design, but the letters themselves are done a "stylized- font", which has no real "letter-type". It's an "individualized" kind of thing...
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,889 posts
AeroScale: 681 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2019 - 04:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, Russ!

Essentially, the colors for the "Djigooblie" name letters are a WHITE base, with a RED center. It's not a complicated design, but the letters themselves are done a "stylized- font", which has no real "letter-type". It's an "individualized" kind of thing...



Dennis--PM sent.
VR, Russ
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
AeroScale: 490 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2019 - 11:26 AM UTC
Done and dusted.
Ok not quite, but I've resprayed the gloss black and it looks good not perfect but good, so I probably didn't thin it enough so its all drying now so I should be able to lay a coat of either Tamiya XF 11 Chrome silver or XF 16 flat aluminum in a couple of hours, I'll probably go Aluminum
Airbrushing is not as easy as it looks and as with most things be in the right frame of mind. I'll do some photos once I get a decent day its cold and overcast not the best for picture taking.
chris1
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: October 25, 2005
KitMaker: 944 posts
AeroScale: 490 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 01:00 PM UTC
Hi All,
I haven't forgotten all of you who replied.
The P-51 finally made it back to the bench I've had a couple of
mis-starts with painting so I decided to strip the paint off and redo several times-Still learning air-brushing techniques-but finally I'm happy with the result. Also 'Varsity essays have been taking up a fair bit of time.
I didn't know IPA loosens glue so some extra work required.