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Idea: Underdogs campaign
Shrimpman
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 110 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 03:15 AM UTC
Hi, guys
I've spent the last several weeks building a Fairey Swordfish biplane, and had a really great fun with it. While reading up about the plane, an idea for a campaign came to my mind: what if we launched a campaign for the underdogs, the planes no one really expected much of, badly obsolete designs that somehow managed to punch well above their weight, delivered stunning performance despite being clearly outclassed or even planes that turned out so useful that they outlived their replacements? Well, you get the idea. Do you think it would be worth a try?
I could pull some examples out of the top of my head, like the said Swordfish, or Gloster Gladiator, Hs 123, Ju 87 in the late war, Hurricane (Spitfire stole all the glory, but it was the Hurricane that bore the brunt of the fighting in the BoB), MiG 19 in Vietnam, Aardvark in Desert Storm, A-10, even F-16 - designed as a cheap and expandable alternative to F-15, turned out to be a weapon that ruled the battlefields. Do you think it would make sense or maybe there would not be enough variety?
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,872 posts
AeroScale: 463 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 03:18 AM UTC
This could be interesting, one I could think of would be the Brewster Buffalo, and I have always wanted to build one.

MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,185 posts
AeroScale: 2,282 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 04:02 AM UTC
The only issue I would see is deciding what qualifies. This is going to be a rather vague category. But let's see how it rolls.

Michael
LinusB
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Western Australia, Australia
Joined: March 21, 2016
KitMaker: 247 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 04:33 AM UTC
Perhaps a narrowing of the campaign to military aircraft of the Golden Age of Aviation ie. 1919-1939

There is a list on Wikipedia that has a list of military aircraft that entered service from 11 November 1918 to 1 September 1939.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Interwar_military_aircraft

Choosing a subject that didn't go on to greater glory in later conflicts ie. Spitfire, Hurricane, 109s, 110s.
Lakota
#123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 892 posts
AeroScale: 221 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 06:59 AM UTC
Howdy Linus
This sounds like a very interesting campaign proposal. Your list would leave off the P-400, P-39, P-40, Brewster Buffalo, A6D Skyraider, A-10, F-16, Ki-44 and Ki-100 among others.
Just my 2 cents. Carry on, you've got a great idea.
Don "Lakota"
LinusB
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Western Australia, Australia
Joined: March 21, 2016
KitMaker: 247 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Linus
This sounds like a very interesting campaign proposal. Your list would leave off the P-400, P-39, P-40, Brewster Buffalo, A6D Skyraider, A-10, F-16, Ki-44 and Ki-100 among others.
Just my 2 cents. Carry on, you've got a great idea.
Don "Lakota"



Suppose I am moving it from an Underdog Campaign to the Golden Age of Aviation campaign. Perhaps restricting it to the Marks that flew up until the 1 September 1939?
Shrimpman
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 110 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 09:13 PM UTC
The Golden Age! Great idea, and the possibilities are so vast! And considering the amazing leap in aviation technology during the interwar period, we could hope to see huge diversity.
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 4,545 posts
AeroScale: 2,373 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 11:04 PM UTC
I would be in for the "Golden Age Campaign" There so many a/c to choose from.

Bob
Berwickboy
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: April 27, 2013
KitMaker: 446 posts
AeroScale: 383 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2018 - 11:14 PM UTC
The campaign idea is very interesting/ I love the thought of underdogs, my mind instantly settling on the Westland Whirlwind, let down by its engines but packed a helluva punch. Perhaps instead of underdogs, which is a very wide definition we should look at limited service, either low numbers and/or short service
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,075 posts
AeroScale: 2,714 posts
Posted: Friday, April 27, 2018 - 12:39 AM UTC
As if I'm not in enough campaigns already. I've got a few in each category, underdogs; Brewster Buffalo, Brewster Buccaneer, TBD, P-35, P-36, P-39, P-40, FH Phantom, F6U. Golden wings candidates SBC Helldiver, F4F-3, J2F, and a couple of biplanes (F9C?).
LinusB
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Western Australia, Australia
Joined: March 21, 2016
KitMaker: 247 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Friday, April 27, 2018 - 07:30 AM UTC
I suppose the question is what do we define an under dog as? Mike’s suggestions are good. Would be interested in either Under dog or Golden Age campaigns.
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 2,256 posts
AeroScale: 607 posts
Posted: Friday, April 27, 2018 - 08:06 AM UTC
How about defining an underdog as one that was overshadowed or displaced by something else. Just to whet your appetite, here's my Special Hobby B-18A (beat the B-17 in the USAACs 1934 competition, only to be overshadowed by its larger competitor during WWII, still the most numerous Bomber available to the US at the start of the war). This model just made an appearance at the Seattle IPMS show-- earning a second place in its category, can't enter it in this campaign but I'm thinking of the even more ugly nosed B-18. Here at 72 Blogspot, or third photo in at Seattle IPMS gallery:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1CqsLnjD8QQ/Wtu77q3FDOI/AAAAAAAADII/mEXKiOA_TDQKz590xgRcs9MdjZC3bMVEQCLcBGAs/s640/DSC_0918.JPG

http://ipms-seattle.org/gallery/springshow/2018/104/

VR, Russ
Lakota
#123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 892 posts
AeroScale: 221 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 04:41 AM UTC
Hey Linus,
I think both campaign ideas sound great. I'll keep watching and I'd be game for either campaign. Count me in.
Thanks,
Don "Lakota"
LinusB
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Western Australia, Australia
Joined: March 21, 2016
KitMaker: 247 posts
AeroScale: 105 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 28, 2018 - 07:46 AM UTC
How about a Golden Age of Aviation campaign and an Under Dog campaign once we define what an under dog is? The golden age aircraft are anyone’s that made an appearance after 11 November 1918 to prior 1 September 1939 both military and civilian.

Perhaps the Under Digs could be extended to the Under Appreciated also i.e. those overshadowed by more famous aircraft e.g the Short Stirling, B-24
Lakota
#123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 892 posts
AeroScale: 221 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 05:11 AM UTC
Howdy Y'all
Is anyone going to propose a Golden Age campaign or Under Appreciated campaign? Just wondering...
Thank you,
Don "Lakota"
Shrimpman
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 110 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 - 02:02 AM UTC
I could propose the Under Appreciated campaign, especially that the original idea came from me, but I still need to figure out how to do it in the tutorial post. I don't know how to make ribbons and also I would need some help on deciding what models would qualify.
I was thinking we could try planes that:
a) surprised the world with their performance / combat record despite being obsolescent or;
b) were very successful, but got kicked to the back row by more famous designs or;
c) designs that showed fantastic promise, but were never given the opportnity to shine due to: other project being selected for mass-production / designer falling out of favour / country knocked out of the war too early / cancelled due to political or financial reasons etc.

We already have several candidates mentioned in the earlier posts, but we still need more variety. Maybe prototypes would qualify?
I think we could try to make a single list to figure out if we had enough variety to proceed. So far we've got solid candidates:
- Fairey Swordfish
- Gloster Gladiator
- Westland Whirlwind
- Short Stirling
- Henschel Hs 123
- Brewster Buffalo
- TBD
- Airacobra
- P-40
- B-18
- Ki-44
- Ki-100
I hope I didn't miss any.

I could propose to add:
I-153 and I-16 - excellent fighters that could give Luftwaffe run for their money if Stalin didn't torn his experienced air force personnel to pieces in the purges.
I-180 and I-185 very intersting prototypes that got cancelled for political reasons.
Italian bi-planes: CR.42 and CR.42
Heinkel He-112 - could have been better that Bf-109 but was not selected for political reasons
B-24 Liberator - this is a long shot. It was famous and appreciated, but apparently the crew were very bitter that B-17 stole all the glory
French Dewoitine D.520
Polish PZL P-11c fighter - considering the circumstances it fought much better than would be expected.
Polish PZL.37 Łoś bomber - quite modern design, but never had a chance due to German air supremacy.

I don't know much about Pacific theatre planes and after war planes that would fit in the criteria. I would appreciate if you could add some propositions of your own.



phantom_phanatic309
#372
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,128 posts
AeroScale: 1,344 posts
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC
With so many types that could qualify I was thinking why limit it to just WW2?
Thinking about a type that was considered obsolete but went on to achieve a fantastic combat record, the A-1 fits the bill. Arguably performing better in Vietnam than most jets!
The Buccaneer is another, especially in the Gulf. The Tornado could not have done its job without it, yet Tornado took all the publicity. The Buccaneer crews were also given a lower life expectancy and losses were predicted, yet they came out of it with barely a scratch on the paint work.


Shrimpman
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 110 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 - 05:54 PM UTC
We are splitting this into two campaigns - Golden Age for interwar planes and Under Appreciated for later designs (World War II and later conflicts). This way Vietnam and Gulf Wars would fit right in. For Vietnam I also would most heartedly recommend A-7 "SLUF" - very small plane that delivered one hell of a punch.
Naseby
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Slovakia
Joined: October 15, 2010
KitMaker: 751 posts
AeroScale: 428 posts
Posted: Monday, May 14, 2018 - 10:37 PM UTC
Underdogs who realy performed very well despite being obsolete without any doubts ?

Polikarpov Po-2
Westland Lysander
Fairey Swordfish
A-26 Invader, B-57 and A-1 Skyraider in Vietnam


Lakota
#123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 892 posts
AeroScale: 221 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 - 12:35 PM UTC
Shrimpman,
Have you submitted a proposal yet? I don't know how many people are interested in which campaign: "Golden Age" or "Underdogs". Perhaps starting two separate threads would help sort out who is interested in which campaign. Just a suggestion.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"
Bink123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Quebec, Canada
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 372 posts
AeroScale: 357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 05:33 AM UTC
Did anyone mention the Czech Avia B.534? Eduard makes a cracker of a 1/48 scale open-cockpit version, and a closed cockpit version.

How about the Hawker Fury Mk. I which though an interwar type, did serve in North Africa with the South African Airforce in 1940/'41.

Two of Lockheed's YP80A/P-80 pre-production 'Shooting Star's were deployed to Italy in mid-1945 for reconnaissance, but never saw combat - overshadowed because of their much-limited role - but important none the less.

MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,185 posts
AeroScale: 2,282 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 03:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Shrimpman,
Have you submitted a proposal yet? I don't know how many people are interested in which campaign: "Golden Age" or "Underdogs". Perhaps starting two separate threads would help sort out who is interested in which campaign. Just a suggestion.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"



I agree with Don. Having two campaign proposals in the same thread is confusing and it's hard to tell which has the requisite 10 people willing to join. I would also suggest starting two separate threads.

Michael
Shrimpman
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dublin, Ireland
Joined: August 14, 2016
KitMaker: 110 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 09:02 AM UTC
Hi guys, I think I will have to pull out of "running" the campaign. There is a bit too much going on at the moment with my life and I just cannot find the time and energy for this idea. Would anyone more experienced with campaigns be willing to take over? I would gladly build for both campaigns, but the thought of running the campaign is becoming more and more scary for me.