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Black Dog: Pin-Up Female Aircrew
sherb
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: August 25, 2004
KitMaker: 573 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Monday, October 30, 2017 - 05:37 AM GMT+7
Since I come to this site to "get away" from the stresses of real life I debated whether or not I really wanted to wade in and reply to this post--especially since I'm more of a lurker than poster and when Rowan, Drabslab and Jessica have summed up my POV.

Ultimately, I find myself more troubled by the justifications that these types of figures have been around, provide a challenge for the figure painter and are "nothing new to the hobby and is news related to the hobby."

To further justify them by asking if "male figures who are completely topless or just wearing shorts be offensive, I suspect not." misses the mark and is a poor comparison. I would submit that if they were posed in the same suggestive and provocative way these are they could be considered offensive.

Slightly off topic but somewhat related, I seem to recall some grumbling about the recent anatomically correct Bravo6 figure relieving himself.

For better or worse, people, ideas and standards, can and maybe, should evolve over time.

In the end, nothing bothers me more than the, that's the way we've always done it argument.
raypalmer
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 29, 2010
KitMaker: 1,151 posts
AeroScale: 985 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 05:21 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi all

It's disappointing to see the attempts to justify something tacky like this. While it might be argued that one of the site's tasks is to report news, there's a lot of material that we quite rightly don't publish.

In this case, the subject has only the most tenuous relevance to aircraft modelling and, regardless of whether it technically does or doesn't breach Network rules, the overwhelmingly negative reaction shows it clearly isn't welcome and has caused offence to some. Hopefully that will be sufficient to ensure a more considered and enlightened approach in future.

All the best

Rowan


It's a tacit "no girls allowed" sign on the front door. Not to mention it seems pretty indefensible because any argument would have to contend with how absolutely and completely immaterial it is to the subject of scale aircraft modelling. Just a juvenile wank for people who've never mastered relating to women in any real way.

Joel_W
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 7,916 posts
AeroScale: 6,596 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 04:51 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Hi all

It's disappointing to see the attempts to justify something tacky like this. While it might be argued that one of the site's tasks is to report news, there's a lot of material that we quite rightly don't publish.

In this case, the subject has only the most tenuous relevance to aircraft modelling and, regardless of whether it technically does or doesn't breach Network rules, the overwhelmingly negative reaction shows it clearly isn't welcome and has caused offence to some. Hopefully that will be sufficient to ensure a more considered and enlightened approach in future.

All the best

Rowan



Rowan,
Well said my friend.

Joel
Lakota
#123
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Mexico, United States
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 718 posts
AeroScale: 188 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 03:16 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

...and so many guys say to me "I wonder why so few women are into models?"


Amen
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 16,450 posts
AeroScale: 12,254 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 - 09:42 PM GMT+7
Hi all

It's disappointing to see the attempts to justify something tacky like this. While it might be argued that one of the site's tasks is to report news, there's a lot of material that we quite rightly don't publish.

In this case, the subject has only the most tenuous relevance to aircraft modelling and, regardless of whether it technically does or doesn't breach Network rules, the overwhelmingly negative reaction shows it clearly isn't welcome and has caused offence to some. Hopefully that will be sufficient to ensure a more considered and enlightened approach in future.

All the best

Rowan
CMOT
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
ARMORAMA
#406
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,061 posts
AeroScale: 230 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 - 11:29 AM GMT+7
I will say I have had no use for figures of this type to date and I am unlikely to in the future, but that does not mean others might. It is one of the networks and the sites task to provide information on what has become available in their genre. I am sorry it has offended you or anyone else, but these figures do not breach the networks rules; would male figures who are completely topless or just wearing shorts be offensive, I suspect not.
Joel_W
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 7,916 posts
AeroScale: 6,596 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2017 - 10:59 AM GMT+7
My 1st day back on Aeroscale and I see this thread. Not being shy by any means, I'm a older Gentleman about to turn 70 in a few weeks, so my personal view is just that, and most likely in the minority.

I'm with Jessica that certain things from the past are better left there when it comes to a hobby like ours where younger generations are being encouraged to join in. Speaking strictly as a senior person, I've always considered myself to be rather conservative by nature and generation, even to the point of opting not to use Pin Ups in my modeling, and so far I've always found other options when the need has come up.

Joel
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
AeroScale: 1,514 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 08:42 PM GMT+7
In case you did not notice, I am European, and take offence that you use an invented supposed tolerance by europans to this crap as argument to get away with this. On the real issue : Our Jessie, a woman!!! And someone very well known on this site as long term contributor and as a generally calm and good humour person TAKES THIS VERY BADLY.

Isn't that clear enough?
Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,542 posts
AeroScale: 5,840 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 02:59 PM GMT+7
As long as you make excuses for the problem you will remain part of the problem. Certain things in history need to remain in history, not keep being dredged up into the present.

This site used to be a refuge from the horribleness which has been going on in other places. Pity that didn't last.
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,653 posts
AeroScale: 381 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 02:05 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text


There is a "culture" in our society to reduce real people into objects to make money feeding the fantasy of those unable to treat those people as human beings and with respect. The "books and calendars with fotos of the real deal" you are refering to are part of that filthy "culture".

It is already bad enough as it is, there are already too many Wienersteins, and I regret that this sh!t is spreading to our hobby and that Aeroscale is prepared to give attention to it.

This kind of outspoken comment may not be appropriate on a modelling site and may be seen as too inflamatory, and that is probably why earlier comments of others here are so restraint.

I am also guilty of not being sufficiently explicit in my first comment and for not expressing clearly what I think about this. I am glad that I correct this here and now.



I do not totally agree that this is over the line. Unfortunately the Pinup Girls are a part of war and history. This would the same as the girls painted on the nose of aircraft. And this is nothing compared to what Wienersteins has done to woman, and can't believe it is even compared.

Also, as the manufacture is from Europe, we have been told in the past that view in Europe are more liberal for this kind of thing. It is just a set of figures, and I would not care if they are women or men, the manufacture must of thought there was a market for these.

As for AeroScale, we cover decal sheets depicting nose art that may be risque, and to me this is the same type of item. It is nothing new to the hobby and is news related to the hobby.

Kevin


Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,542 posts
AeroScale: 5,840 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 01:34 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

...and you can go back to gory depictions of violence and killing machines.




That "wooshing" noise? Yeah, you missed it too. Anyone who knows me here knows the type of kits I prefer to build.

Open mouth, remove foot, slink away, Stephen. When you assume, you make an ass of U.

Oh, by the way. For someone who claims he doesn't objectify, you need to check your language. "Females" is an adjective, not a noun. Way to dehumanise half the human race, sport. It's not a question of Puritanism, nor is it one of sexuality. It's a matter of not being treated like a piece of meat.

There's no wonder why so few women hang around in model forums.
Bravo1102
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,686 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 01:01 PM GMT+7
I actually have a bunch of beefy shirtless guys in my collection as well as non Caucasian females. Be that as it may. I'm tempted to get these figures and doing them as Tuskegee airwomen.

As a web comic creator I've been pretty outspoken about objectification of women where it is more relevant. As an artist as well I see the unclad human form as a thing of beauty to be celebrated, not to be obsessed about like a Puritan. As a student of anthropology and history I know that cultures that aren't uptight about nudity have a far lower instance of Weinstein perverts than those that don't. (I've touched on that too in the comics I've done) Objectification is about power not nudity. If someone takes charge of their sexuality it can become a weapon that defeats the Weinsteins of the world.

I believe that human sexuality can empower people as opposed to victimizing them. But then you would probably dismiss me as a pervert and pornographer.

I'll go back to painting my nudes on canvas as well as miniatures and you can go back to gory depictions of violence and killing machines. Amazing that depictions of violence and weapons of war should be extolled as a noble endeavor but any depiction of sexuality is an evil perversion. Something else I've dealt with in forums about comics.
Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,542 posts
AeroScale: 5,840 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 10:43 AM GMT+7
Sauce for the goose time. If it's all about skin tones, how about a figure of this guy?


And while we're at it, let's remember that for something like 75% of the world's population, "skin tone" doesn't mean pasty white.
Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,542 posts
AeroScale: 5,840 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2017 - 12:01 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

These are for the people who routinely do cheesecake figures. Some if us go back to the old Sanderson and Phoenix Phollies figures as well as the newer ones.

Painting large areas of flesh is quite a challenge.

And you know there are books and calendars with photos of the real deal so why wouldn't someone want to recreate that in scale?



...and this kind of dismissal is the other big reason.


Quoted Text

But with that said, I have seen a resurgence of women into the hobby, espeically around the Gundham area. Hopefully it does not get carried away like some other branches of the hobby.



That "whooshing" sound you heard? That was my point, sailing waaaaaay above your head.
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
AeroScale: 1,514 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 11:17 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

And you know there are books and calendars with photos of the real deal so why wouldn't someone want to recreate that in scale?



There is a "culture" in our society to reduce real people into objects to make money feeding the fantasy of those unable to treat those people as human beings and with respect. The "books and calendars with fotos of the real deal" you are refering to are part of that filthy "culture".

It is already bad enough as it is, there are already too many Wienersteins, and I regret that this sh!t is spreading to our hobby and that Aeroscale is prepared to give attention to it.

This kind of outspoken comment may not be appropriate on a modelling site and may be seen as too inflamatory, and that is probably why earlier comments of others here are so restraint.

I am also guilty of not being sufficiently explicit in my first comment and for not expressing clearly what I think about this. I am glad that I correct this here and now.
Bravo1102
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 1,686 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 01:08 PM GMT+7
These are for the people who routinely do cheesecake figures. Some if us go back to the old Sanderson and Phoenix Phollies figures as well as the newer ones.

Painting large areas of flesh is quite a challenge.

And you know there are books and calendars with photos of the real deal so why wouldn't someone want to recreate that in scale?
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,653 posts
AeroScale: 381 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 11:42 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

...and so many guys say to me "I wonder why so few women are into models?"



Jessie

Good to hear from you, and I have to partially agree. But with that said, I have seen a resurgence of women into the hobby, espeically around the Gundham area. Hopefully it does not get carried away like some other branches of the hobby.

Kevin
Jessie_C
_VISITCOMMUNITY
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,542 posts
AeroScale: 5,840 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 11:30 AM GMT+7
...and so many guys say to me "I wonder why so few women are into models?"
drabslab
_VISITCOMMUNITY
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
AeroScale: 1,514 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 05:25 AM GMT+7
Jee, and who was waiting for this exactly
bill_c
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 9,588 posts
AeroScale: 978 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 04:43 AM GMT+7
Cheesy. Really kinda low class IMO.
sinistervampire319
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 137 posts
AeroScale: 49 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 11:17 AM GMT+7
Just need a good 1/32 photographer and a Mustang.
T0MM0-01
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 20, 2015
KitMaker: 78 posts
AeroScale: 24 posts
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 - 10:44 AM GMT+7
Bravo1102 -- I dont think gartor belts will suit ya mate !!! -- besides, they'll catch on ya hairy legs , sweet cheeks ♡♡♡ !!!
raypalmer
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 29, 2010
KitMaker: 1,151 posts
AeroScale: 985 posts
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 - 09:47 AM GMT+7
Well there you go. That's exactly what we've been missing. Great.
rdt1953
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 624 posts
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 - 07:55 AM GMT+7
Hopefully Gaston will weigh in on the accuracy of their respective shapes.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 16,450 posts
AeroScale: 12,254 posts
Posted: Friday, October 13, 2017 - 06:51 AM GMT+7
Hmmm, classy...

Just what you need a for a diorama of a Harvey Weinstein casting session for a WW2 movie.

All the best

Rowan