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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
NMF Hasegawa Jug build 1/48 scale
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 07:48 AM UTC
G'day Friends,
I've been waiting on parts to arrive from New Zealand for another build, and have started to tackle my next learning experience.

I put some small effort into the cockpit and engine, but not that much. I'm hoping to stumble upon a pilot figure before I get into seat belts.

Despite the clean shape of the P-47, it really has a lot of shapes to learn the best way to cover. Exhausts, louvres, blisters, and curves all demanding much from my fumble fingers. Our covering is aluminium foil.

The cowling took all morning. And I'm still not happy with it. Digital photos show me things me things my eyes had missed. I started with the engine louvres and the single piece engine cowling. There are seven different pieces of foil on the cooling flaps, and ten on the cowl.




The pimply look on the port side is caused by glue being too thick. I'll have to pull that piece, wash it off with turpentine, and do it again... That's what happens when you take your glasses off!


The glue for the aluminium foil costs the same as a bottle of Alclad. I can't help but be happy with the way the metal actually looks like metal. If I can do this Jug right, I've a Ki-61 Tony and a Ki-44 Tojo I want to subject to the same treatment.

As always, advice and opinions appreciated.

Thanks for looking!

Gary
AussieReg
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AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 08:53 AM UTC
Razorback Jug, toughest looking fighter from WWII in my opinion.

I'll be following along on this journey Gary, best of luck with the build.

Cheers, D
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 04:52 AM UTC
Hi Damian,
Thank you for writing. For me the learning process continues. Last night I worked on the vertical stabilizers while the CA dried between the wings and the fuselage.

Today I'll be filling that nasty gap and others.
The tailplane...which is the correct term, tailplane or vertical stabilizer? Anyway, there are a lot of curves and angles on pieces I generally think of as flat. I used two different techniques looking for the best solution. On the starboard side I used only two pieces of foil with virtually no overlap. On the other side, I used more pieces and overlap over every edge except where it attaches to the fuselage.


I haven't found anywhere about how much time is needed to cure the cement. All I can really do is let a piece sit for a while then try tearing off the covering.
The process is:
1. Paint the cement on the side of the foil very thinly,
2. Let it dry until it looks like dull masking tape...in a dust free place...
3. Lay your piece of foil over the part to be covered, and burnish it down with q-tip from the center outward...the cement is pressure activated.
4. Trim it with a very sharp blade dipped in light oil....the lubrication helps to keep your foil from tearing. I use clear lamp oil.
5. Buff and sand...0000 grade steel wool works best for finishing. I have tried 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper, but it's too rough. I need to find something a bit gentler, locally.
6. wipe clean and seal with Future. Paint doesn't adhere well to foil, and the Future prevents oxidization of the metal.

Step 5 is where the frustration usually comes into play for me. And it's usually caused by an edge coming loose. Feathery trailing edges and curves (like wingtips) are my bane at the moment.

Another enemy is dust. The tiniest mote shows through, so all drying is done inside disposable plastic Chinese Food type containers before I apply the foil to the aircraft.

Tomorrow, after the tail has had 48 hours to cure I'm going to tear it all off, and see if I can improve appearance and adhesion by using patience.

Thank you for reading.
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Monday, June 29, 2015 - 07:36 AM UTC
Hello Everyone,
There are a few sites out there where guys have made some great looking models with aluminium foil. So I've borrowed a lot from their writings. Because of this, I keep going backwards and peel more foil off pieces I had considered finished.

Here is a comparison shot. The cowling and cooling flaps were applied, scoured with very fine steel wool, and sealed with future. The bomb racks have foil applied with no further treatment. The wing root and vertical stabilizer have been tarnished....sort of...

I've used a jar of 50/50 bleach and water with pieces of brass on the bottom can help to age the foil.

Because it's only a jar, I treat a few pieces at a time for only 3-4 minutes as the bleach will pinhole the foil in five minutes, and completely dissolve it shortly thereafter.

The general idea is to give it that operational look (still metallic without looking like it should hang from a Christmas Tree) without covering it with scratches and striations like those visible on the cowl.
The wing roots and tail empennage have some difficult complex curves to work around. The foil will stretch some but never enough.

This photo shows some of the tiny crinkles that show up when you work a piece that is too big for all of the curves. You can't see it in the photo, but when the centreline piece was first applied, it had a pretty mother-of-pearl look to it. I'm going to make some sanding sticks with coffee stirrers and some very fine 1500 grit paper I got from Super Cheap. So far, it's the finest paper I've found for low cost.

If anyone has any tips for staining or tarnishing Aluminium for low cost, I'd be very thankful.

Thank you for reading!

Gary
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 03:02 AM UTC
Gary,
A most impressive start to foiling a Jug. While I've thought about trying it, I just can't see myself being very successful, so it's Alcad's for me. Looking forward to following your thread to what I hope will be a successful conclusion.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 08:33 AM UTC
Hi Joel and Thank you!
I'll be the first to agree with to-each-his-own in all things. Although it's tedious work, it's a great learning experience. I've probably got 6-7 more hours into it since my last post, and am still working on the fuselage. I decided to take her outside and get some pic's in natural light.




I'm no metal purist, though. I certainly don't see myself doing anything bigger than an A-26 in 1/72 scale in it. There are already a few tiny dabs of Alclad here and there, and I'm pretty certain there will be more. Also, the blisters beneath the ailerons have resisted every attempt at foiling. So I may just Alclad the entire underside of them.

Thank you for looking!

Gary
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 - 07:18 PM UTC
Gary,
The fuselage looks really great. I can see where blisters of any kind would be a real issue. Alcad seams to be the logical way to go. I'm assuming that you'll paint 1st, so you don't have to mask as I'm not sure how the foil will react to masking tape.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, July 02, 2015 - 05:15 PM UTC
Hi Everyone!
Thanks for responding, Joel. I had to mask when I painted the Alclad on the Aileron and vertical stabs. I just stuck each piece of tape to my arm, or shirt, or pants before I stuck it to the foil... then peeled very carefully

BTW Joel, that stand your awesome looking Buffalo is sitting on inspired me to dig some parts out of my shed to build my own stand.

Anyway, since I'm still learning how to build models again, and since I'm trying to learn how to make a metal finish, I'll share some pictures, some ideas, and some of my woes.

The aircraft looks too patchy. And there seem to be too many variables involved in the way I made my sheeting. I made it as I used it. On my next plane I'll make as much as I think I need, then make twice as much yet again, all at the same time discarding any pieces that are too un-uniform.


Wherever I made a tear I didn't inspire me to tear off the complete sheet/panel, I used some Alclad polished aluminum on the tip of a fine brush to help hide the fault. The Alclad is so thin that it runs between the foil panels without actually sticking to them. ...I thought this pretty cool!

I have three main problems with this technique which I haven't mastered. Dust, curved edges, and fine edges like. Wing tips, trailing edges, and the tapered fillet where wing meets fuselage.

Here are my hidden sins. My main sin is impatience. The straight, leading edge of the wing is easy. But you can see on the ailerons a row of teeth-like points which enable the curved skin of the foil to hold to the wing. On the landing flap you can see the small hint of the fold-over from the upper surface which I haven't tried to hide, yet.
You might think that the simple solution would be to glue it flat to the tapered edge. And that would be a true statement IF(!) the foil didn't peel away when you touched it whilst working on another area. I'll gladly try any solution anyone might proffer.

The foil-glue-plastic bond is far from permanent. My bleach solution for staining the Aluminium makes it stick better than it does naturally...but... I should say that it is selectively permanent. If you don't like the look of a panel, you can be certain that removing it will never come easy. I even had to sand two wing panels off because I couldn't get the knife edge to lift the foil. But if you brush an edge while working elsewhere, it will often lift a little requiring more glue and more burnishing.

I have only a few smaller pieces yet to foil(including the canopy-which scares me mightily). Then I can seal the whole thing with Future, paint some stuff, and bring it all together.

...I have no idea how I'll go about weathering the beast yet...

Thank you for reading!

Gary


Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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Posted: Thursday, July 02, 2015 - 09:57 PM UTC
Gary,
Just an idea to throw out at this point. Since the curved leading/tailing edges, and raised bumps, etc. are major issues, why not just paint those panels with Alcad? At least till you find a way to make the foiling work on those troublesome areas?
Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Friday, July 03, 2015 - 04:00 AM UTC
Hi Joel,
Your idea has crossed my mind...along with the idea of a colourful post-war scheme. Despite its brilliance in relation to other products, the Alclad looks like Gray paint when it's adjacent to the foil. It will, I imagine, always be my fallback.
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, July 03, 2015 - 09:10 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Looking good. The Razorback IMO is the better looking of the Thunbolt variants.

Your intial post always brings a smile when I read your comment about waiting for parts from NZ.Its usually one of the larger US,Uk,Asian distributors,rather than NZ.
Waiting on your next update.


Chris


GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Friday, July 03, 2015 - 10:32 AM UTC
Hi Chris,
Thank you for writing. I try to restrict my shopping to Aussie businesses as much as possible. But it didn't bother me to shop NZ. Kiwi's are the friendliest people I've ever met.
Anyway, the more I work with the jug, the more I appreciate it's lines. I haven't accomplished much today due to some needed home repairs.
I coated the Jug with future and took some pictures in the sun. The Future took care of some of the patchiness, but in some of the views you can see some strange patterns that my chemical staining made. The future also changed the reflective properties, muting some of the shinier panels.




Now the thing will have to cure for a couple of days before I decide how to go about decals and the bands on fuselage and wings. The kit comes with decals for the bands, but I almost would rather paint them myself.

Thank you for reading!

Gary
chris1
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, July 03, 2015 - 11:18 AM UTC
Hi Gary,
Definitely go with painted bands.
On my very slow Airfix Bf 109f build I painted the ID band and it looks rather good (a bugger of a kit though).
All I did was spray the appropriate color then cut out the decal as a template, transfer this to tape, add to aircraft,paint.Bobs your uncle.

Of course given potential issues with the lifting of the foil,
Remember to use low tack tape.

Chris😲
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Friday, July 03, 2015 - 01:56 PM UTC
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the decal-as-a-template idea. That should save me a lot of trouble. I'm expecting a fair amount of difficulty, each band is black flanked by two golden bands. Lots of room for me to screw up remains.

Cheers!

Gary
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 06:12 AM UTC
Gary,
For what it's worth, I much rather paint bands that go around a fuselage or wings then struggle with decals that will wrinkle and fight you every step of the way from laying down and looking like paint.

Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 07:17 AM UTC
I hear you , Joel!
In my mind there are only two possible results when it comes to decals. They either look perfect, or they look horrible.
I've never had any decal chemicals to soften them or make them stick better. Just cut, slide, and pat down. I just bought them today, and am a little apprehensive as I near the finishing stages of this bird.

...so, my education continues.

Gary
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 04, 2015 - 04:39 PM UTC
G'day Friends!
I have a couple of questions. When I got the kit I discovered it came with canopy masks, to my delight. But I have more pieces than I know what to do with.

Please, what are the four tear-drop shaped masks (two indicated with red arrows)for?

The second question is for color advice. I still have to do some standard things to bring out detail...like a wash to highlight panel lines. I've seen it done black, but I think black looks too stark. Does anyone have a color they prefer when doing NMF for a wash? Or, is there another recommendation on what I might do?

Thank you for reading!

Gary
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 03:29 AM UTC
Gary,
Today's decals are vastly better then what we had to deal with back in the 70s, but they still will benefit from proper use of the decaling setting and softening solutions. Most used system is the Microscale system of Set and Sol. I also use Solvaset as per Paul Budzik's method. Take a few min and watch his video. It's really quite well done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chCLz7xnnZQ

Not sure what the extra masks are for, but I also seem to have extras on the canopy masks that come with some of my kits. Usually it's for another variant that uses a different windscreen and canopy.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 12:09 PM UTC
G'day Everyone!
Joel, thank you for that great link. I've bookmarked it so I can watch it again when I do my decals. I think that every time I watch one of Mr. Budzik's videos I just sit there and watch with my mouth hanging open. I'm going to limit my scale so I never feel obligated to decal fasteners!
Last night and today I made significant progress. Last night was spent skinning the canopy. The pictures are huge compared to the little bit of clear plastic. AS far as the plastic goes, it's the nicest clear plastic I've seen in a kit box

The EZ masks probably saved me from making a million little cuts into the canopy. Because I'm nearing the end of my patience with this kit, I only did the windscreen twice.

Today I painted the squadron colors. People make a big deal of the colors added by those carefree Germans! This plane looks more airshow than air combat.

These are the colors of the 47th Fighter Squadron. After taking part in the defense of Pearl Harbor in 1941, it spent the next few years waiting for the Japanese to come back. Once Pearl was definitely no longer threatened, the 47th took part in actions in the western Pacific.

The stripes are painted with artists acrylics thinned with water. I did this because I didn't want any harsh solvents ruining the coating of Future underneath. Despite my best efforts there was some peeling as I removed the Tamiya masking tape. I'll need to find some masking with less tack for my next NMF build.

I included this shot for you guys who love chipping. This cowling's rim was painted solid black before I attached the engine and cowling to the rest of the A/C. So, the only thing that came in contact with the black paint was my fingers. I've got an FW-190 in my stash. I think when I build it, I'll foil the armored cowl ring of the bird and take some paint away with casual handling.
At the end of it all, I've re-coated the plane with Future to protect the paint from further harm.

Thank you for reading!

Gary

Edit: Sentence content
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 06:16 PM UTC
Gary,
The stripes look fantastic.

I've used Pledge as often as Testors Glosscoat, and I've never had it react to any type of paint thinner I've used. That includes Tamiya Yellow cap Lacquer Thinner, Tamiya X-20A, and plain old Mineral Spirits. Just keep in mind that unlike 90% of the products we use which were developed specifically for modeling purposes, Pledge/Future is a acrylic floor finish, so there shouldn't be any issues or concerns about small amounts of diluted solvents airbrushed on. That is unless it's Ammonia based like Windex-D.

If you need to detack the Tamiya tape further (which I do for all painted surfaces), I just apply each piece to the back of my hand. The body oils will detack it nicely.

Joel
Totalize
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 09:33 PM UTC
Coming along nicely here. Stripes look great.
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 08:12 AM UTC
Hi Everyone!
Joel and Dave, thank you for your kind words. When I start reaching that 'too-long-on-this-kit' or 'I-really-wanna-try-this-technique-on-that-other-kit' frame of mind, it helps to hear from other modelers.

Anyway, It's Done!! Here are some photos with a few words attached. BTW, once again I've failed to remember to buy some construction paper, so there will be some background to the pics.


I found a blue binder to use as a backdrop.


I took some shots outside, too. Unfortunately it's a cloudy day.


Photos were taken with my Samsung Galaxy II. Though, I accept full responsibility for poor quality.


After the foil was applied the whole thing was sealed with future. After further detailing including painting with artists acrylics, and further detailing, the whole thing was sealed with Testor's dullcoat. All of those processes have leveled out the different tints in the aluminium.


I couldn't decide about how much I should do with exhaust. So, I did the minimal: Just trying to make the exhaust ports look like burned metal. The gun barrels on this kit are just cylinders. I drilled holes in the barrels and painted them my best impression of gunmetal gray.


The top of my Barbecue could almost double as tarmac. I put too much decal softener on the upper wing insignia and destroyed it. Fortunately, the kit comes with two sets. However, the second set has no border around the white bar. So, I cut up the round portions, applied them, then connected the bits with paint. It looks ok if I don't look too closely.


The Decal setter I was using didn't go well with future. Below the canopy at the wing root, you can see the smear around the white decal. That was the first decal I applied. I tried it once more, and got the same result. So, I won't be using that stuff with Future.


I didn't put too much effort into the wheels, struts, and covers.


Any paint chipping you see was done by incidental contact. I don't know much about artists acrylics, but gesso might help the paint stick better. I didn't have any and figured the chipping added character that I was too lazy to do myself, or that would look realistic to my own eyes.

I used a lot of tips I found on this forum and others to help me through. Thanks to those who share their knowledge! I'd like to offer special thanks to those who posted replies and a general thanks to all who read this thread.

Gary
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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Posted: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 08:53 PM UTC
Gary,
Congrats on a rather difficult build. Just getting a NMF aircraft build completed with foil is a major accomplishment. You ventured and succeeded where most of us just wouldn't venture at all.

As for your photography, it's pretty good, especially considering your shot your pictures with a cell phone. As for the cloudy conditions outside when you shot your pictures, those are the perfect conditions to shoot in. Direct, bright, contrasty light are all non-favorable conditions. When I'm forced to shoot in those conditions, I use a photo umbrella to help control the light and shadows. If you look at your pictures, you'll see that the light is soft, consistent, and hasn't created any deep shadows.

I've decaled over Pledge/Future dozens of times with Micro Set & Sol, and lately have been using Solvaset without any issues. I'm still at heart a Dullcoat/Glosscoat kind of guy, but I'm really trying to move to all acrylics these days. What you're seeing could be how the Future dried on the foil. There are a few picture without decals b after you sealed with Future that has those smears, so I tend to think that it's how the Future dried on the foil. I have zero experience with foils, so I don' really know how clearcoats react to it.

Joel
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 03:29 AM UTC
Hey Joel,
Thank you for your kind words and helpful advice. I'm really glad to have completed it. But I have to admit I'm hooked on the look. Now I can consider models that I would walk past before: all of those great, unpainted jet fighters from the fifties and sixties from Sabre-jet to Sukhoi. Because it's such an inexpensive media, I can afford to experiment.

Gary
Totalize
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 - 05:17 AM UTC
Nice stuff Gary. Well done on this NMF Razorback.
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