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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
AbramJ
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 02:46 PM UTC
Its been a while since I posted here and I must say, Brian, when I saw you were passing the project on I was a little disappointed and worried it wouldn't hold up to the level of detail you've put into it so far. HG has definitely put those worries to bed, amazing work! Keep the updates coming please!
Redhand
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 02:16 PM UTC
MORE WHEEL WELL & SUPERCHARGER WORK

H.G. has accomplished a lot in the past few days, and rather than offer extended commentary I'll let his work speak for itself (mostly).

Let's start with some extra detail on the superchargers.






He's getting there with these "brass ring" additions.



Here is some landing gear detail from the Verlinden set. Note the wiring.



Moving right along.



Brutal "rip out" work getting the wheel wells ready for what's to come.







Measuring the top of #2 engine wheel well.



Can you guess what this is? Hint: Not wing filler.



The beginnings of an engine oil tank.



It's shaping up nicely.



In situ.



With straps shown for appearance's sake: not the final positioning.



Compare to the real thing.




Wiring details. I haven't a clue.



A plan begins to emerge out of the chaos.



Holy crow!


And this! The first time I have ever seen a cut clear through the nacelle to make room for supercharger piping "in the round."




I just drop the mike on this one.



It's exquisite, even from the exterior. I just love the engineering and thought put into this impossible-to-model space.
amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 12, 2019 - 12:23 AM UTC
Amazing work! Most impressive detail. I wanted to ask if you are following Eric Lewis' photos of the rebuild of Champaign Lady's as they are showing landing gear work now. Restoration link here''
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2214546772006673&set=pcb.2214547242006626&type=3&theater&ifg=1
Redhand
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 10:40 AM UTC
Thanks Karl. Another question from HG:


Quoted Text


Can you please find out if the drop ceiling (with the carb pipe input) at the front wall was level with ground or the dihedral. This picture is simply for dry fitting and problem solving. I sent it to help ask the question and will be decreasing the height.



Here's the picture.



Thanks again, Karl!
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 04:17 AM UTC
Cad plated steel. So the gear had a dull silver finish.
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 03:33 AM UTC
MORE PROGRESS ON THE WHEEL WELL

This is fantastic.



Karl:

HG asks what color the landing gear struts should be. I would say aluminum, but what were they really made of? Part of me wants to say stainless steel because I have a hard time imagining aluminum as a metal strong enough to support the weight of this A/C, especially when fully loaded.

Thanks.

Brian

KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 01:29 AM UTC
WOW. I mean WOW!!!
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 01:15 AM UTC
Brain & HG,
Amazing, simply amazing

Joel
Redhand
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 09, 2019 - 02:00 PM UTC
NO. 3 ENGINE WHEEL WELL AND A WAR STORY

Let me begin with the war story.

Forty-five years ago, at the end of July, I left active duty as a reserve officer in the US Navy. I spent two and a half years as the gunnery officer on a WWII era Naval Reserve training destroyer -- USS Douglas H. Fox (DD-779) -- based at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard (PNSY).

Then I was stashed for the remaining six months of my active duty commitment at PNSY itself, where this liberal arts major became a "Ship Superintendent" assigned to the overhaul and modernization of the USS Macdonough (DLG-8).

There were two Lt. Commanders already assigned to the ship (which was decommissioned at the time) and I wondered what job I would get with them. They made me the "compartment closeout" officer, which meant that I was responsible for keeping the shipyard military hierarchy up to date on the progress of the work in all the 300+ compartments in the ship. It proved to be one of the most fascinating work experiences I have ever had!

After a full morning's briefing and orientation on my duties, they said, "Let's go down and show you the ship."

Here's a picture of it in drydock from the very time I worked there.



What does this have to do with this blog? Well, I'll never forget my reaction to being taken into the ship's interior. I was stunned at what a shambles it was. So great was my shock that I said to myself, "They don't know what they are doing! Can't they see they will never get this put back together? It's too far gone."


That was kind of my reaction to seeing this prep work on the wheel well to No. # 3 engine nacelle.



But as with the ship, it appears I am wrong.

Let me start with the restored wheel well to the #2 engine nacelle (photo kindly provided and posted here earlier by Karl).



Now remember, the image is reversed for #3 engine nacelle.

















I stand corrected.
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 09:23 AM UTC
Brian,
Yep. I can see just glimmers of what's below the turbos.

HG must stay up at night thinking about all of this.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 09:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
HG's turbo charger detailing is really quite amazing. The only issue I have is that from your pictures you can barely see any of it once the turbo is installed, and almost none of it towards the front. Does a change in viewing angle make any difference?

Joel



I am told it's a work in progress, and that H.G. is still adjusting the nacelle openings to assure the most accurate placement of the supercharger piping and components.



Here are some other, later views showing more details underneath.





There really is a three-and-a-half dimensional quality to this compared to the molded-in turbos on the original kit lower wings!

Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 04:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
HG's turbo charger detailing is really quite amazing. The only issue I have is that from your pictures you can barely see any of it once the turbo is installed, and almost none of it towards the front. Does a change in viewing angle make any difference?

Joel



Too early to tell Joel, but I'm not complaining!
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 04:43 AM UTC
Brian,
HG's turbo charger detailing is really quite amazing. The only issue I have is that from your pictures you can barely see any of it once the turbo is installed, and almost none of it towards the front. Does a change in viewing angle make any difference?

Joel
Redhand
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 04, 2019 - 04:25 AM UTC
WHEEL WELLS AND SUPERCHARGERS - EXCAVATING, TRIMMING AND FITTING

After a brief pause while he waited for wheelwell "raw materials" (not sure what aside from tubing, styrene strips for ribs, etc.) H.G. is back at it, using these materials and pieces from the Verlinden aftermarket set. I'm not sure exactly what the sequence of work is, but these photos show definite progress!

This is perhaps my favorite because you can see an outboard engine used for positioning.



But don't think what goes under the supercharger is being ignored.



What is it? In part an impression of the compressor blades above the turbine disk, even if it is practically invisible.



I like it. Note the part extends all the way to the back of the Nacelle so there isn't just empty space where the opened turbine cooling air exhaust slot is.

Let's move on to some other work on the nacelles where the exhaust and supercharger piping goes.



The outer nacelle piping and the white styrene base insert is impressive when one considers that these items will only be partially seen in the small area between the supercharger opening and the supercharger parts themselves. See the first photo!

It is also instructive to see how H.G. is fitting out the inner nacelle, even though I still don't have "the big picture." (But, that's OK!)

The fit-up work on the inner nacelle of the supercharge parts is a joy to behold. Here we see that H.G. has no hesitancy in modifying the Verlinden resin where he feels he can achieve a more realistic appearance.


It's pure pleasure for me to watch this coming together after soooo many years!
Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 11:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A word of caution as always: You must always use caution when using a restoration for reference. The late airplanes had the rubber bladder type oil tank but the earlier airplanes had the metal tank which had a bladder inside it.



Got it!
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 11:08 AM UTC
A word of caution as always: You must always use caution when using a restoration for reference. The late airplanes had the rubber bladder type oil tank but the earlier airplanes had the metal tank which had a bladder inside it.
Redhand
#0
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 08:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

B-17G Yankee Lady 44-85829 was at the EAA Oshkosh 2019 show last week. I poked around the gear well bays with my cell phone camera some. Please see photos here if these could help in any way. Enjoy
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=279072



Stuart:


I looked at these and they are really good. I'll tell H.G. to review them. He's beginning work on the wheel wells now.

Thanks again.

Brian
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:18 AM UTC
Thank you!
amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:01 AM UTC
B-17G Yankee Lady 44-85829 was at the EAA Oshkosh 2019 show last week. I poked around the gear well bays with my cell phone camera some. Please see photos here if these could help in any way. Enjoy
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=279072
Redhand
#0
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 01:18 PM UTC
Wonderful pictures. Thanks.

I was surprised that the heating system was glycol, but there is some sense to exhaust heated "antifreeze" being a heating agent in freezing air, isn't there?
KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 10:21 AM UTC
I have some photos of the unrestored wheel wells of the "Memphis Belle" but they are not mine to share. What I do have is the post restoration photos that I took and I can tell you that they followed the originals. The aft bulkhead was painted and the straps holding the oil tank. Everything else is unpainted.

View aft in #2 nacelle:



View forward in #2 nacelle. Panel has been removed from the firewall for engine access:



View to the left of the #2 nacelle. Those white wrapped lines are for the glycol system we were just discussing:



Looking up and to the right. Glycol tank is at the top, the oil tank is to the left.



Just cuz it interests me, the glycol tank:



Little dark, forward, up and right. The object angling down is the gear retract strut. At the top of it, you can see the black retract motor. The rod running to it is for the manual retract system.



Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 09:26 AM UTC
Fascinating! Many thanks, Karl. I'll let HG know. I'm learning things I never knew about the A/C. I always wondered what those details on that pipe were. And, you are correct to call the pipe part of the exhaust system rather than the turbo system.

Any thoughts about the original interior colors of the wheel wells? My money is on aluminum with no paint, but what do I know?

Thanks again.



KPHB17FE
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 06:37 AM UTC
The exhaust on the left IB engine has boilers and lines related to the heating system. Nothing to do with the turbos. These were not on the #3 exhaust (except for a very few but we won't get into that!) so it was just a plain pipe. Monogram, and thus Revell, got a lot of details right. This was one of them.

Here is the #2 exhaust on the Belle with the boilers and related lines (They actually have only two boilers installed and a cover plate over the other but you get the idea:



Here in the glycol system in the #2 nacelle. The boilers in the exhaust heated the glycol and then the hot glycol was routed to a heat exchanger in the wing root:



Here is the entire system. Air was run through the heat exchanger and warmed up then routed in various places in the fuselage. How effective was it? Not very according to most but I have met a couple of pilots who said they were comfortable in the cockpit. Still warmly dressed but not wearing the shearling gear and so they could operate fairly well.


Redhand
#0
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New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 01:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Make no mistake, Brian is the mind behind this... read his book! It's a pleasure to help.



HG: Let me say publicly what I have privately. The biggest compliment I've ever been paid as a modeler is that you decided to complete this project to "do justice" to my prior work on it.
HGBARNES
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AEROSCALE
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 05:18 PM UTC
Make no mistake, Brian is the mind behind this... read his book! It's a pleasure to help.