login   |    register
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Kevin Brant
KotS GB 2011 Sop. F1 Aussiereg
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,185 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 12:51 PM UTC
Hi all. My first thread on the Early Aviation site, but I'm sure it won't be the last !!

For this GB I'm diving into the hangar and dragging out a project that I started about 15 years ago (gasp) and put it away again because my skills and tools weren't where I wanted them to be for this project.

I'm doing the Revell 1/28 Sopwith F1, but with a bit of a twist ! Here's where it sits right now...



It was brush painted back then, so I will do some sanding and repaint with the airbrush. And now for the twist. I want to create a display in a sealed acrylic case with the aircraft, the newly released Hasegawa 1/6 Clerget engine kit (which I have on pre-order), and this relic from an original Sopwith F 1 . . .




My grandfather was an ANZAC in The Great War, fought at Gallipolli, Ypres, The Somme and several other major battles, was injured several times, but made it home. His brother was killed in action. I have my grandfathers diaries in my posession, and I have been slowly transcribing them over the past few years. I have not found exactly when or where this relic came into his possession yet, and I know there are a couple of diaries missing, but my father recalls one of the very few conversations where his father spoke of the war, and it appears that a Camel force landed nearby to him and was damaged beyond repair, so it was pulled apart by our guys and some "souvenirs" were kept.

The engraving on the prop hub is as follows:

G416 N 73
130 CLERGET
AD 644 R H
SOPWITH F 1
D 2590
P 2650

The meaning of some of this is obvious, but if any guru's out there can shed some light on the numbers I would be most grateful.

Anyway, I won't be doing too much on this until the second half of the year due to other Campaign commitments, but if I sneak in any progress I'll keep you up to date. I will probably ask you guys for some help down the track, these things with strings scare me a bit !!

Good luck with all of your builds for this GB.

Cheers, D
thegirl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,739 posts
AeroScale: 6,147 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 01:36 PM UTC
Looks like you got an interesting project in the mist ! Will be looking forward too it D !
Mgunns
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Arizona, United States
Joined: December 12, 2008
KitMaker: 1,423 posts
AeroScale: 1,319 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 02:27 PM UTC
Hello Damian and welcome to the Early Aviation side of the house and the KotS GB. Neat stuff you have there. Can't help you out on the prop, but the kit is an oldie but goodie, I have built several most recently a few years ago, and would like to do another one applying the skills I have now. I have learned them all here, so lots of good people willing to share their talents and abilites. Good luck and look forward to your progress on this a/c.

Best

Mark
dmopath
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Kentucky, United States
Joined: July 02, 2010
KitMaker: 175 posts
AeroScale: 174 posts
Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 05:39 AM UTC
I have fond memories of this kit and I am anxious to see what to will do with it (especially the figures).

Are you going to finish it in Brown's markings?
Utterdown
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Belgium
Joined: February 09, 2011
KitMaker: 2 posts
AeroScale: 1 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

G416 N 73
130 CLERGET
AD 644 R H
SOPWITH F 1
D 2590
P 2650



A little explanation:

- G416 N73: G416 is the batch number and N73 means it's the 73nd that is made in that batch.
- 130 CLERGET means that the prop was fitted on that engine, a 130 HP rotational Clerget engine (9 cylindres)
- AD 644 RH: Air Department of the Admiralty (so the Brittish Airforce) 644 is the type of propellor and RH means right hand tractor. So that's the way the prop turns.
- Sopwith F1 is the plane this prop was built for
- D2590 is the diameter in metric milimeters
- P2650 is the pitch of the propellor

I hope this helps you and I hope you can restore it properly. Have fun with it and greetings from Belgium!!!
windysean
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 04:33 AM UTC
Utterdown, that's some fantastic research! You joined KitMaker just to answer that question (?), and what an insightful answer!
Damian, I jumped over here from your mention in the Great War forum. Looking forward to watching this build too.
-Sean.
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,185 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 07:28 PM UTC
Well it's time to drag this one out of mothballs and get cracking !


Quoted Text

Are you going to finish it in Brown's markings?



Yes Dennis, the kit decals still look quite usable so I'm going to go that way. Now I have a question or 2 for the Early Aviation gurus regarding colours. I use Tamiya acrylics, and I have been trying to work out the cross references for this scheme. So far I am going to go with Tamiya XF-51 Khaki Drab for the topside colour, but I have no idea what the underside (Revell Brown 381) or the cockpit panels (Revell Olive Grey 66) will correspond with in the Tamiya range.

Can anybody assist ?

Cheers, D
Mecenas
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Katowice, Poland
Joined: December 23, 2007
KitMaker: 1,594 posts
AeroScale: 1,273 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 11:08 PM UTC
The practice shows that whatever colour which may be described as olive-green or brown-green will be ok. For the bottom most of the people use Model Master or Gunze "Radome" although I have no idea what's the equivalent from the Tamiya's range.
gajouette
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 01, 2007
KitMaker: 365 posts
AeroScale: 356 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 - 10:06 AM UTC
Damian,
Great project my friend.I'm looking forward to following this thread.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,648 posts
AeroScale: 10,990 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 - 02:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well it's time to drag this one out of mothballs and get cracking !


Quoted Text

Are you going to finish it in Brown's markings?



Yes Dennis, the kit decals still look quite usable so I'm going to go that way. Now I have a question or 2 for the Early Aviation gurus regarding colours. I use Tamiya acrylics, and I have been trying to work out the cross references for this scheme. So far I am going to go with Tamiya XF-51 Khaki Drab for the topside colour, but I have no idea what the underside (Revell Brown 381) or the cockpit panels (Revell Olive Grey 66) will correspond with in the Tamiya range.

Can anybody assist ?

Cheers, D



Greetings damian,

On the colours I could recommend some Resene colour chips (fast replacing the old Methuen types). Or just take a look at some of my reviews for the Eduard 1:48 Sopwith F.1 "Camel". The RNAS Camels were usually assigned either the Bentley 150hp or the Clerget 130hp. B7270 had the Bentley. There are several good references on Brown's Camel.
Aircraft of the Aces #52 Osprey Sop Camel Aces might be one.

As of this writing they are wait for some reprints to come in.


Osprey Sop camel vs Fok Dr.I


JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,648 posts
AeroScale: 10,990 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 - 02:48 PM UTC
If its references you want here's some of my favorites.
1. Profile 31 The Sopwith Camel F.1 by J.M.Bruce Profile Publications 1965..
2. General Arrangement Drawings of the F.1 & 2F.1 (printed in 1/48 Scale) by W.R.Titus Cross & Cockade USA , Vol.7 #1, Pp.81-92, 1966.
3. Sopwith Camel, PAM News Intl. Pp641-646, February 1979.
4. The Legendary Sopwith F.1 Camel by Ray Rimell, Scale Models Pp.509-511, October 1978.
5. Four Aces by Doris Reeves, IPMS Sounders-Erhart Pp.126-7 Circa 1972.
6. Sopwith Camel by J.M.Bruce, Windsock Datafile 26, Albatros Publications, 1991.
7. Barker & 139 Sqdn I.E.F. by R.C. Johnson, IPMS Rocky Mtns Pp.8-9, May 1996.
Removed by original poster on 10/11/11 - 02:18:58 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 10/11/11 - 02:18:36 (GMT).
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,648 posts
AeroScale: 10,990 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 - 03:13 PM UTC
Here is Scott Janney's 1:72 version of Brown's Camel from April 21, 1918 as seen on wwi-models.org



Sopwith Camel F.1 B7270, Capt A. R. Brown, 209 Sqdn, Bertangles France. There are several renditions of this machine and this profile reflects current research. On 21 April 1918 Capt Brown and his 209 flight, flew in combat with elements of JG1. *Brown was given official credit for downing Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. *Current research is in conflict as to who did the deed but, Capt. Brown got the credit.

AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 6,185 posts
AeroScale: 3,483 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 - 03:30 PM UTC
Thanks for those references Stephen, there's a pile of reading for me to wade through now !


Quoted Text

On 21 April 1918 Capt Brown and his 209 flight, flew in combat with elements of JG1. *Brown was given official credit for downing Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. *Current research is in conflict as to who did the deed but, Capt. Brown got the credit.



I'm fairly certain that it was Aussie ground troops that brought down MvR by throwing empty beer bottles at him, but they never got credit because they weren't supposed to be drinking on the job !