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Humbrol or tamiya?
Matthew9447
Joined: June 21, 2013
KitMaker: 6 posts
AeroScale: 6 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 03:29 PM UTC
Hello, I am new to this hobby, and I have built a few kits before(ending in disaster), but I've learned from mistakes along the way and with a ton of research and reading I think I am ready to tackle another kit and hopefully it will not end In disaster like before. For this kit, I am planning on hand painting it since mom would not be very happy buying an airbrush and compressor with all the other tools I am going to have to pickup(and paint also), so I am saving the airbrush for later. My question is, I already have a few tamiya paints but I am going to have to buy colors I don't already have, and ive heard tamiya is better with an airbrush, so I'm wondering if I should get humbrol instead for hand painting, but I would also like to know what I should be paying attention to if I end up using tamiya. Thnx!
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 03:43 PM UTC
Hi Matt,
Welcome to Aeroscale!
Tamiya paints need special help to hand brush, since they're designed to be solvents for themselves. This means that if you brush over a partially-dried bit of paint the new paint will begin to take the old paint off, ruining the paint job.
Humbrol paint brushes better because it's an enamel. You will need thinner formulated for enamel paints to clean your brushes off with, you'll need to make sure that you stir the paint thoroughly in order to get the pigment particles suspended properly in the carrier, and you'll also need to make sure you've got good ventilation in your workspace because the fumes from enamel paints and thinners are toxic; they can quite easily make you very sick.
Welcome to Aeroscale!
Tamiya paints need special help to hand brush, since they're designed to be solvents for themselves. This means that if you brush over a partially-dried bit of paint the new paint will begin to take the old paint off, ruining the paint job.
Humbrol paint brushes better because it's an enamel. You will need thinner formulated for enamel paints to clean your brushes off with, you'll need to make sure that you stir the paint thoroughly in order to get the pigment particles suspended properly in the carrier, and you'll also need to make sure you've got good ventilation in your workspace because the fumes from enamel paints and thinners are toxic; they can quite easily make you very sick.
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
AeroScale: 1,351 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 03:52 PM UTC
Hi Matt and first of all welcome, the paint question has many answers as some prefer brand A while others will prefer brand B and some brand C, but if hand painting steer clear of Tamiya as you rightly said it does not work well with a brush.
The next question is enamel or acrylic, you also have two types of acrylic, water based and solvent based although both can be cleaned with water only the water based can be thinned with water.
Humbrol is available in both acrylic and enamel, the enamel being good by either paint brush or airbrush, the acrylic (last time I tried) is fair by paint brush, although through an airbrush and thinned down is very good.
So from your two it would have to be Humbrol, if it's the enamel remember that enamels take several hours if not overnight to dry although thinning down sometimes speeds up the drying time, oh and remember to cover the kit while it dries or you'll find a covering of fine hairs/dust stuck to the paint.
Hope that's of some help
The next question is enamel or acrylic, you also have two types of acrylic, water based and solvent based although both can be cleaned with water only the water based can be thinned with water.
Humbrol is available in both acrylic and enamel, the enamel being good by either paint brush or airbrush, the acrylic (last time I tried) is fair by paint brush, although through an airbrush and thinned down is very good.
So from your two it would have to be Humbrol, if it's the enamel remember that enamels take several hours if not overnight to dry although thinning down sometimes speeds up the drying time, oh and remember to cover the kit while it dries or you'll find a covering of fine hairs/dust stuck to the paint.
Hope that's of some help
Matthew9447
Joined: June 21, 2013
KitMaker: 6 posts
AeroScale: 6 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 04:30 PM UTC
Thnx! So humbrol it is, and I am leaning more towards water based acrylic because its easier to clean(mom does not like messes) . Was reading some threads on tips to modeling and it seems like I would need an airbrush badly in the future =D
Matthew9447
Joined: June 21, 2013
KitMaker: 6 posts
AeroScale: 6 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 05:42 PM UTC
Also, I am looking for a cheap gravity fed single action(or maybe duel?) airbrush and a small portable air compressor, and ideas?
Matthew9447
Joined: June 21, 2013
KitMaker: 6 posts
AeroScale: 6 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 02:04 AM UTC
Disregard last reply, looked around and found some answers, now what I really need answered is why tamiya isn't good for brush painting, and if it'll be ok to paint another layer after the first layer of paint has dried completely(maybe a few hours?)?
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 02:19 AM UTC
Tamiya paint dissolves itself so the problem is putting a second brush stroke down beside the first one without taking part of the first one off. The partially dried paint will roll up in little clumps and mix with the paint on your brush. It only takes a second or so for this to start happening, so you'll be happily painting away and then you'll have a clumpy mess on your hands just like that. The problem is worse for the flat colours than the gloss, but it still happens with both types of Tamiya paint.
Yes, if you manage to get a good first coat down it's fine to paint over, but you'll still have the same problem with that coat.
On the upside, once you learn the correct mix, it sprays really well.
Yes, if you manage to get a good first coat down it's fine to paint over, but you'll still have the same problem with that coat.
On the upside, once you learn the correct mix, it sprays really well.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 02:53 AM UTC
Matt, 1st and foremost, welcome to the hobby & to Aeroscale. I've seen hand painted models that you would think were done with an air brush. They were that good.
Start with a good primer coat. Tamiya grey primer shot from a rattle can will give you a great base to hand paint on. The paint needs to bite into something or it just runs. Issue is that it's lacquer based. Many people apply it outside on a calm day, or in the garage or shed, not in the house.
Type of paint. Go enamel, thin with mineral spirits. Thin so the paint flows as you just brush in one direction. Build up a nice base coat over a few applications, not all at once where it fills in all the recessed details. Let dry for 3-4 days min. The surface may feel dry in a day or two, but the bottom layers are still soft. Enamel paints dry from the top down.
Now each color coat needs to be polished out. This is the secret of hand painting. You need a set of polishing cloths/pads that the car guys use. I've had mine for years. They're not sand paper. The set usually is: 4,000, 6,000, 8,000, & 12,000 applied wet, very wet. Go easy, and stay away from high areas, outside seams, as the paint is very thin there. You will see the brush strokes, dust, etc. slowly vanish. The end result is a smooth surface for another coat or a different color.
This procedure takes a lot of time, much more time then air brushing, but it works. I would strongly suggest you practice on some scrap plastic to get the hang of polishing, it's not sanding.
Acrylic paints dry too fast for hand application, and the dried surface is to hard to smooth out.
Use a Future based product to clear coat by hand to decal. To flat, I would suggest Dullcoat from a rattle can. Again, it's lacquer based, but it works perfectly every time.
Joel
Start with a good primer coat. Tamiya grey primer shot from a rattle can will give you a great base to hand paint on. The paint needs to bite into something or it just runs. Issue is that it's lacquer based. Many people apply it outside on a calm day, or in the garage or shed, not in the house.
Type of paint. Go enamel, thin with mineral spirits. Thin so the paint flows as you just brush in one direction. Build up a nice base coat over a few applications, not all at once where it fills in all the recessed details. Let dry for 3-4 days min. The surface may feel dry in a day or two, but the bottom layers are still soft. Enamel paints dry from the top down.
Now each color coat needs to be polished out. This is the secret of hand painting. You need a set of polishing cloths/pads that the car guys use. I've had mine for years. They're not sand paper. The set usually is: 4,000, 6,000, 8,000, & 12,000 applied wet, very wet. Go easy, and stay away from high areas, outside seams, as the paint is very thin there. You will see the brush strokes, dust, etc. slowly vanish. The end result is a smooth surface for another coat or a different color.
This procedure takes a lot of time, much more time then air brushing, but it works. I would strongly suggest you practice on some scrap plastic to get the hang of polishing, it's not sanding.
Acrylic paints dry too fast for hand application, and the dried surface is to hard to smooth out.
Use a Future based product to clear coat by hand to decal. To flat, I would suggest Dullcoat from a rattle can. Again, it's lacquer based, but it works perfectly every time.
Joel
wychdoctor92394
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
AeroScale: 136 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 04:08 AM UTC
Listen to Jess... and I prefer Humbrol over any other paint. Far better qualities than most other paints; drawback - they're enamels... and require other ways to clean than water or rubbing alcohol.
Scrodes
Joined: July 22, 2012
KitMaker: 771 posts
AeroScale: 763 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 02:57 PM UTC
Welcome namesake.
You'll generally find on this side of the globe that people prefer by far to use Tamiya or Modelmaster. I hate the Humbrol paintcans. I hate tring to mix in them, pour out of them and i have never had much luck with their paints. Just my .02
You'll generally find on this side of the globe that people prefer by far to use Tamiya or Modelmaster. I hate the Humbrol paintcans. I hate tring to mix in them, pour out of them and i have never had much luck with their paints. Just my .02
wychdoctor92394
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
AeroScale: 136 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 04:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Matt,
Welcome to Aeroscale!
Tamiya paints need special help to hand brush, since they're designed to be solvents for themselves. This means that if you brush over a partially-dried bit of paint the new paint will begin to take the old paint off, ruining the paint job.
Humbrol paint brushes better because it's an enamel. You will need thinner formulated for enamel paints to clean your brushes off with, you'll need to make sure that you stir the paint thoroughly in order to get the pigment particles suspended properly in the carrier, and you'll also need to make sure you've got good ventilation in your workspace because the fumes from enamel paints and thinners are toxic; they can quite easily make you very sick.
I use an old random-orbit sander with heavy elastic bands to hold a can of Humbrol paint, when I want to mix it. I place the tightly sealed paint pot with a piece of 1/4" plastic sheet on the top in the middle of the sander and use the bands to hold it there. Shake it for about 15 seconds and the paint is suspended in the carrier matrix perfectly.
warreni
Joined: August 14, 2007
KitMaker: 5,926 posts
AeroScale: 2,201 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 08:19 PM UTC
For the two Matts I will give you a hint for mixing paint, use a 5ml or so syringe to measure and mix the paint. First suck up the required thinner (water,thinner) then the paint, then put your finger over the hole in the syringe and shake the syringe. Perfectly mixed paint in the right quantities.. 
And you can store the unused paint in the syringe for a while without it drying out quickly, especially if you put a little piece of masking tape over the tip to close it off.
Make sure you rinse out the syringe after use.
I for one use acrylics almost exclusively and Tamiya paints can be brushed as easily as any other if you don't try and apply coats before the previous coat if fully dryed. And don't apply stroke after stroke to the same area or it will strip old coats.
Gunze are also great acrylics and Lifecolor is also very good but take a bit of getting used to when spraying. But for brushing Lifecolor is awesome and they have many colours not available from other companies.
Hope I have not confused you
Cheers
Warren
And you can store the unused paint in the syringe for a while without it drying out quickly, especially if you put a little piece of masking tape over the tip to close it off.Make sure you rinse out the syringe after use.
I for one use acrylics almost exclusively and Tamiya paints can be brushed as easily as any other if you don't try and apply coats before the previous coat if fully dryed. And don't apply stroke after stroke to the same area or it will strip old coats.
Gunze are also great acrylics and Lifecolor is also very good but take a bit of getting used to when spraying. But for brushing Lifecolor is awesome and they have many colours not available from other companies.
Hope I have not confused you
Cheers
Warren
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 12:42 AM UTC
James, one of the reasons I've avoided using Humbrol paints (enamels or Acrylics) is the extreme difficulty of mixing the paint in those tins. I always made a mess. You can hand shake those tins forever, and they never seem to mix the paint properly. Now, I've got a few hand orbiter sanders, and will give it a try to mix my paints, including trying Humbrol enamels once again.
As Jessica said, hand painting with Tamiya Acrylics isn't an easy or reliable task.
Joel
As Jessica said, hand painting with Tamiya Acrylics isn't an easy or reliable task.
Joel
vdejarnette
Joined: February 25, 2013
KitMaker: 209 posts
AeroScale: 138 posts
Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 01:27 AM UTC
I've never had a problem stirring or mixing humbrol or any other paint with a toothpick or piece of spare sprue. I prefer the paint I use to be brushable as well as airbrushable for easy touching up with a brush when necessary, so I avoid buying Tamiya when I have the option.
golfermd
Joined: March 01, 2013
KitMaker: 152 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, I am looking for a cheap gravity fed single action(or maybe duel?) airbrush and a small portable air compressor, and ideas?
Matt, I suggest you save some money over time to buy yourself decent airbrush and compressor. This doesn't mean you have to spend hundreds of dollars on a professional line of equipment. You will not be happy with a cheap set. You'd better off using a brush.
And don't get discouraged. Some of mine look like a 2 year old put them together. However, I put them together for my own pleasure, not for someone else's critique. Hence, you won't be seeing mine in the Model of the Month contests.
bdanie6
Joined: November 09, 2008
KitMaker: 615 posts
AeroScale: 459 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 01:19 AM UTC
@Matt, I use primarily Tamyia, both thru an airbrush and by hand. As everyone has said, hand painting Tamyia is a bit frustrating. What I have learned to do is use a perfectly clean soft flat brush, load the thing up with paint and go in one direction only....and never repeat 
Which means you have to go slow enough so you cover with that one stroke. When the paint dries I have never noticed any loss of detail. I suspect its because I leave it alone. 
As for an airbrush, I use a Testors single stage beginners brush that you can pick up at Scalehobbyist for less than $30.00. I've had mine for a couple of decades now and never had a problem with it. Of course for fine line work it's totally inadequate, but by the time you are ready to do complex camouflage you'll be experienced enough to know what you need. As for compressors, we don't need no stinkin' compressors!
Canned air works fine. From the small cans you can get 4 or 5 1/48 scale wingy thingys. They are relatively cheap and are a lot easier to use, with or without a pressure regulator. And you don't need an inline water trap either
Hope this helps, oh, by the way, Welcome to Aeroscale!
@Anyone have any opinions on Vallejo Acrylics?
Later
Which means you have to go slow enough so you cover with that one stroke. When the paint dries I have never noticed any loss of detail. I suspect its because I leave it alone. As for an airbrush, I use a Testors single stage beginners brush that you can pick up at Scalehobbyist for less than $30.00. I've had mine for a couple of decades now and never had a problem with it. Of course for fine line work it's totally inadequate, but by the time you are ready to do complex camouflage you'll be experienced enough to know what you need. As for compressors, we don't need no stinkin' compressors!
Canned air works fine. From the small cans you can get 4 or 5 1/48 scale wingy thingys. They are relatively cheap and are a lot easier to use, with or without a pressure regulator. And you don't need an inline water trap either Hope this helps, oh, by the way, Welcome to Aeroscale!
@Anyone have any opinions on Vallejo Acrylics?
Later
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
AeroScale: 663 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 03:25 AM UTC
Humbrol!!!! The best paint in the worst containers.
Ian
Ian
wychdoctor92394
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
AeroScale: 136 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 05:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
@Matt, I use primarily Tamyia, both thru an airbrush and by hand. As everyone has said, hand painting Tamyia is a bit frustrating. What I have learned to do is use a perfectly clean soft flat brush, load the thing up with paint and go in one direction only....and never repeat
As for an airbrush, I use a Testors single stage beginners brush that you can pick up at Scalehobbyist for less than $30.00. I've had mine for a couple of decades now and never had a problem with it. Of course for fine line work it's totally inadequate, but by the time you are ready to do complex camouflage you'll be experienced enough to know what you need. As for compressors, we don't need no stinkin' compressors!
Hope this helps, oh, by the way, Welcome to Aeroscale!
@Anyone have any opinions on Vallejo Acrylics?
Later
I beg to differ. I always use a water trap, because as much as they say there's no moisture in the can, there always is and sometimes it forms in the paint bottle. Use a water trap when spraying enamels...
rochaped
Joined: August 27, 2010
KitMaker: 679 posts
AeroScale: 669 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:14 AM UTC
"@Anyone have any opinions on Vallejo Acrylics?"
@ Bruce- pro & cons about Vallejo acrylic range, namely model air range
Pro- easily available, very comprehensive colour chart and still growing, super easy to store paint bottles that come with a very handy paint drop tip, mixes with water, cleans easily, provides good coverage with a few sweeps
Cons- find a tendency to clog airbrush tip rather fast, some shades may be a bit innacurate imo, and found differences within the same colour reference upon restock with newer batches.
Cheers
Pedro
@ Bruce- pro & cons about Vallejo acrylic range, namely model air range
Pro- easily available, very comprehensive colour chart and still growing, super easy to store paint bottles that come with a very handy paint drop tip, mixes with water, cleans easily, provides good coverage with a few sweeps
Cons- find a tendency to clog airbrush tip rather fast, some shades may be a bit innacurate imo, and found differences within the same colour reference upon restock with newer batches.
Cheers
Pedro
amegan
#243
Joined: March 21, 2008
KitMaker: 996 posts
AeroScale: 915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 01:33 AM UTC
I agree with most of the above, brush Humbrol, spray Tamiya or Vallejo. I brushed Humbrol for many years and I still use it for interiors and small parts, I thin and clean brushes with White Spirit and some of my brushes are 10 years old. Tamiya paint does spray well, but as a beginner with limited cash I would brush enamel, but don't be impatient, thin coats, put more coats on if required, wash the model before painting. Go cheap, buy a cheap kit, and use it to practice your brushing, when you can afford it buy airbrush gear. btw Humbrol Emamel sprays well, it just needs different cleaning fluids. Vallejo, difficult to get here, Model Air sprays well, Silver is very nice,
wychdoctor92394
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
AeroScale: 136 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Did you spray the black over the silver on the wingtips? Looks a bit "grainy" there but otherwise, excellent subject!
chumpo
Joined: August 30, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
AeroScale: 2 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 05:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
in order to hand brush Tamiya you will need an acrylic paint retarder, preferably the same brand as Tamiya .and yes after the first coat is dry it's all right to apply a second coat . Bad thing about Tamiya is you can not brush over the paint after it is applied , you stop and wait . Acrylics dries real fast not several hours less than an hour .Disregard last reply, looked around and found some answers, now what I really need answered is why tamiya isn't good for brush painting, and if it'll be ok to paint another layer after the first layer of paint has dried completely(maybe a few hours?)?
amegan
#243
Joined: March 21, 2008
KitMaker: 996 posts
AeroScale: 915 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 08:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Did you spray the black over the silver on the wingtips? Looks a bit "grainy" there but otherwise, excellent subject!
That grain shows more on the photo than on the model, however, if my brain had been working right I would have sprayed black first instead of the other way round. The silver is Vallejo, the black Tamiya. The Vallejo silver is excellent, their Ferrrari Red I found less impressive.
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
AeroScale: 213 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 10:27 AM UTC
I am leaning towards Tamiya. My rage is with Humbrol acrylics. I choose and love their enamel (actually I love enamel over acrylic, ---> old school) but some of the colors I need I can only get in their acrylic line. I did a post ( https://archive.kitmaker.net/forums/211888 ) on what the heck can you use to thin or clean your airbrush with if you use Humbrol's acrylic besides their own Acrylic thinner. The stuff is hard to clean up even with water. Problem is it is impossible to find Humbrol's acrylic thinner here in the US (they must of hired the same marketing people from Gunze Sangyo when it comes to the US market ). Anyways that is my little rant. Thanks I feel better now really I do 
). Anyways that is my little rant. Thanks I feel better now really I do 
wychdoctor92394
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
AeroScale: 136 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 04:29 PM UTC
Has anyone tried isopropyl alcohol? 70% strength should be enough to clean your airbrush...
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